Passenger dislike of class 450s

[whole diary]

[caliwag]

Shock horror...74% of a small sample of pax go out of their way to avoid 450s...

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Trains-must-be-ditched-survey.6169602.jp?

[paul7575]

'Trains must be ditched'?   

That's a change of policy, for the last few years they've wanted them to be replaced with 444s.

Funny thing is though, they never mention what should happen on the lines the 444s would have to be transferred from?

Paul

[Brucey]

Surely simply changing the seating would be a more feasible option than "ditching" the trains?

TBH^▸ (to be honest), if all the passengers can moan about is the width of the seat then perhaps they should try travelling with another TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) (no names mentioned) where you are lucky to get a seat on certain routes, even with a reservation.  If they are complaining about sitting in a narrow seat for 97 minutes, then they should try standing for 140 minutes in the vestibule area of a Class 150, then they won't be complaining

[Phil]

If the locals don't like 'em by all means send them up to Wiltshire. I for one would much rather face a little discomfort than have a 12 hour wait between trains. Some people don't know when they're well off!

[smithy]

if they think the trains down there are bad they want to try a 143 from taunton to cardiff or a knackered/dirty 150/1 from glous-weymouth,then they will realise just how good they have it.

[grahame]

If the locals don't like 'em by all means send them up to Wiltshire. I for one would much rather face a little discomfort than have a 12 hour wait between trains. Some people don't know when they're well off!

Can they be attached to a Thunderbird and have the cab act as a DVT^‡(resolve)?  I quite fancy named locos on trains here - it would certainly help with marketing the line - how great to have a helping hand from Gordon Tracy on your way to Salisbury, or to ride with Lady Penelope from Trowbridge to Swindon!

[devon_metro]

I do sympathise with them to some extent, afterall they did originally have the far nicer 444 trains whilst the Weymouth line had the simply fantastic "Wessex Electrics"

Yet another one to pin to the DafT...

[inspector_blakey]

I know this has been rumbling on for a few years now, but isn't it a bit far-fetched for Cllr Stagg to be claiming, as she appears to be, that 450s rather than 444s on Pompey services are damaging the city's economy...?

The survey discovered 74 per cent of passengers went out of their way to avoid the trains, and many complained of sciatica and other back-related problems as a result of the 97-minute journey.

Would be interested to know exactly how the survey was conducted and what the questions were...for example, asking people questions along the lines of "do you agree that the 450s suck?" will always skew the results towards a "yes"!

The council's survey, conducted on commuters from March 3 to 4 on five early morning trains, also says that many passengers have changed jobs to avoid commuting to London by train, or started driving instead.

I'd also love to know how a survey apparently conducted on-board the trains managed to canvass the opinions of those who avoid them, have changed jobs or are driving instead!

[Henry]

 Really cannot comment from experience, although perhaps the triple seating plan does seem strange.

 I would have thought this would be more for suburban routes, certainly not comfortable for a 90 minute journey.
 Mind you commuters from Portsmouth to London have the choice of 2 routes, if I remember correctly (via Guildford via Basingstoke). Do they use the same stock on both routes ?

[paul7575]

 Really cannot comment from experience, although perhaps the triple seating plan does seem strange.

 I would have thought this would be more for suburban routes, certainly not comfortable for a 90 minute journey.
 Mind you commuters from Portsmouth to London have the choice of 2 routes, if I remember correctly (via Guildford via Basingstoke). Do they use the same stock on both routes ?

Both routes use both types, but no-one from Portsmouth would use the Basingstoke route all the way to Waterloo, it probably only starts to fill up with pax for Waterloo at Fareham.  There is a lot of interworking of EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) stock between various routes out of Waterloo, only the Weymouth trains are almost guaranteed to be 444s (yes there are a couple of 450s make it to Weymouth).  A few months back I checked a whole day's departures from the 'Portsmouth area', including those that started at Havant, and it is about 50% each 444/450 across the weekday.

Interestingly the 350/2s used by LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) are practically identical (with the addition of small tables for cups in the bay seating) - and they run through services from Euston to Crewe.

450s have also run to Southampton on semi fasts since their introduction, (now extended to Poole) without people spending four years moaning about it...

Paul

[Brucey]

I find the Southern Electrostars from Portsmouth to London Victoria to be a much better experience than SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s fleet.  Most of the sets have 2x2 seating, instead of 3x2.  Not only are the trains less busy but the prices are considerably cheaper, even for walk-up fares.  For leisure trips, the extra 30 minutes is worth it, just so I don't have to use SWT!

Perhaps I just don't like SWT, but it seems that they constantly want to give you a penalty fare (on-board announcements, fussy barrier staff and on-train inspectors) whereas Southern staff are generally more friendly.

[The Grecian]

It's an absolute waste of time demanding they be ditched, since the 442s are now working on the Brighton mainline. The Weymouth-Bournemouth-Southampton route is always going to take priority over the Portsmouth route as it's longer distance and serves more large towns and cities, so I have no idea what solution Portsmouth City Council suggest.

It was actually SWT^▸ (South West Trains) who took the 442s out of service as the cost of leasing them was much more expensive than the 444s - it was only a few months after the franchise was renewed in 2006. Southern then decided that they could be rather hnady on Gatwick Express runs.