Fare Evasion

[whole diary]

[John R]

I think the matter is confused by the fact that many TM^‡(resolve)'s adopt an attitude that directly contradicts the rules. Often I hear HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) (and local) TM's on the run in to Bristol apologising for the fact that they have not been able to get down the train and sell tickets for some reason, and the fact that passengers will have to buy them at the barrier at TM and probably queue. Sometimes they are quite specific "Apologies to passengers at Nailsea and Yatton, who I've not been able to get to..."

Now, why would they apologise if everyone should have bought a ticket before boarding? With the possible exception of Weston Milton I suspect every station from Nailsea southwards in Somerset has some sort of ticketing facilities. This behaviour reinforces passengers' attitude that it is OK to board without a ticket because they can get one on the train, (as well as the obvious fact that day in, day out, people do still board and get sold a ticket without being told that they should have bought one before boarding. (Not everyone reads the back of tickets, and I have to say, on commuter services into Bristol, I've never heard a train manager ask why a ticket wasn't bought at the station .)           

The conductor is just appologising for not selling them tickets, nothing there says that he/she would not have charged them the full fare! I agree with most of you though, it annoys me when some people always sell passengers the cheap discounted tickets "no questions asked" as it's not fair on the people that do bother to queue up and buy tickets and its not fair on their "colleagues" that do their job properly and charge the full fare, what ilovetrains posted is exactly right, ask why they don't have a ticket then base your decision on their answer and their actions, generally i'm quite strict but even I use discretion, the other day a bloke joined at a quite major manned station but he wnet down to the TGS, I wasn't there, then up to the buffet to find me to buy a ticket, quite out of breath by this time, I did sell him a cheapy ticket with R/C discount but nevertheless informed him of the official line. had he just sat down and I find him then he would have had an SDR with no discount!

But they sell the normal ticket.

[Mookiemoo]

By seeking out staff in my opinion it shows that you know and accept the rules and realise you are breaking them and you want to pay your fare. By sitting down it makes it seem like you are attempting to avoid the rules, hoping you won't get your ticket checked. I think in the case of a genuine reason for boarding without a ticket seeking out staff is the best advice. Not that I am staff, just based on observation and personal experience.

Which is what I've always done - on Friday I was the breathless person having run the length and breadth of the train unfortunately for me it was a 2+7 and no buffet - but I met a nice guard. 

[Mookiemoo]

Ok, I had  CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) - full first class fir, no YP discount as I was at Slough in plenty of time to get ticket.  Got the 1732 - had to make a wee trip to Gloucester road so intended to get the 1922 home - which I did.  Saw the incoming OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) train arrive on its booked platform on Plat 3 so I thought, great - trains here.  Went to McD's (didnt get a chance to get lunch - was hungry - am ashamed) bought dinner - intention - get on train, chow down, settle down to work.

Except - at 1902 the ticket wouldnt let me through the barrier. Explained to gate staff I was going to Worcester - showed them my season, explained it left at 1922 so ticket was valid - no joy.  REfused to let me through the barrier because the train wasnt "announced"  - I knew and they knew it was the train.  The cleaning crew were leaving.

Dilemma - McD's getting cold - refuse to eat cold McD's and refuse to eat it with bags hanging off me on a platform!  Choice - go to ticket machine - buy an any time single to get through the barrier or let dinner go cold.

Jobsworth was not going to back down - FGW^▸ (First Great Western) got an extra 7.90 out of me.  McD's was revolting - but less revolting than cold McD's.

So - were the barrier staff being jobsworths or not? 

I say yes.

[super tm]

Couple of days ago had a lady with large suitcase getting on my train to oxford.  Asked her where she was going. Plymouth she replied.  Appartnly someone it info had told her.  Well there had been a change of coaches at the last minute which can happen.  If I had not seen her  she would have missed her train to plymouth.

So no the barrier staff are not being jobsworths.

[Tickets Please]

Ok, I had  CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) - full first class fir, no YP discount as I was at Slough in plenty of time to get ticket.  Got the 1732 - had to make a wee trip to Gloucester road so intended to get the 1922 home - which I did.  Saw the incoming OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) train arrive on its booked platform on Plat 3 so I thought, great - trains here.  Went to McD's (didnt get a chance to get lunch - was hungry - am ashamed) bought dinner - intention - get on train, chow down, settle down to work.

Except - at 1902 the ticket wouldnt let me through the barrier. Explained to gate staff I was going to Worcester - showed them my season, explained it left at 1922 so ticket was valid - no joy.  REfused to let me through the barrier because the train wasnt "announced"  - I knew and they knew it was the train.  The cleaning crew were leaving.

Dilemma - McD's getting cold - refuse to eat cold McD's and refuse to eat it with bags hanging off me on a platform!  Choice - go to ticket machine - buy an any time single to get through the barrier or let dinner go cold.

Jobsworth was not going to back down - FGW^▸ (First Great Western) got an extra 7.90 out of me.  McD's was revolting - but less revolting than cold McD's.

So - were the barrier staff being jobsworths or not? 

I say yes.

Have you ever considered that just because someone says something other than what you are expecting or says no to you that they might just be following the instructions they have been given by their employer? Bit unfair calling people jobsworths without knowing why people do things isnt it?

That set of rolling stock may NORMALLY form the 1922 but how do you know that it wasnt intended for a different service. This can happen for lots of different reasons.

If you had just had let through and they had stepped up that set for another service and you had left early on it or missed your train because it was leaving from a different platform you would then be complaining that the man on the barriers shouldnt have let you through or that he should have come down to the train personally and told you that things had changed.

Why dont you wait like 99.9999999999% of the other customers who wait until the train is anounced and then board.

[Mookiemoo]

Ok, I had  CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) - full first class fir, no YP discount as I was at Slough in plenty of time to get ticket.  Got the 1732 - had to make a wee trip to Gloucester road so intended to get the 1922 home - which I did.  Saw the incoming OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) train arrive on its booked platform on Plat 3 so I thought, great - trains here.  Went to McD's (didnt get a chance to get lunch - was hungry - am ashamed) bought dinner - intention - get on train, chow down, settle down to work.

Except - at 1902 the ticket wouldnt let me through the barrier. Explained to gate staff I was going to Worcester - showed them my season, explained it left at 1922 so ticket was valid - no joy.  REfused to let me through the barrier because the train wasnt "announced"  - I knew and they knew it was the train.  The cleaning crew were leaving.

Dilemma - McD's getting cold - refuse to eat cold McD's and refuse to eat it with bags hanging off me on a platform!  Choice - go to ticket machine - buy an any time single to get through the barrier or let dinner go cold.

Jobsworth was not going to back down - FGW^▸ (First Great Western) got an extra 7.90 out of me.  McD's was revolting - but less revolting than cold McD's.

So - were the barrier staff being jobsworths or not? 

I say yes.

Have you ever considered that just because someone says something other than what you are expecting or says no to you that they might just be following the instructions they have been given by their employer? Bit unfair calling people jobsworths without knowing why people do things isnt it?

That set of rolling stock may NORMALLY form the 1922 but how do you know that it wasnt intended for a different service. This can happen for lots of different reasons.

If you had just had let through and they had stepped up that set for another service and you had left early on it or missed your train because it was leaving from a different platform you would then be complaining that the man on the barriers shouldnt have let you through or that he should have come down to the train personally and told you that things had changed.

Why dont you wait like 99.9999999999% of the other customers who wait until the train is anounced and then board.

"That set of rolling stock may NORMALLY form the 1922 but how do you know that it wasnt intended for a different service. " The Hereford stickers were already in the window


"If you had just had let through and they had stepped up that set for another service and you had left early on it or missed your train because it was leaving from a different platform you would then be complaining that the man on the barriers shouldnt have let you through or that he should have come down to the train personally and told you that things had changed. "  No - my own stupid fault


"Why dont you wait like 99.9999999999% of the other customers who wait until the train is anounced and then board."  Most regular commuters at Paddington do the same - its just they have seasons etc and not poxy add on tickets because they were picking up something in London.

[Ollie]

A train being labelled up still doesn't mean it will go there, some changes can literally be last minute.

[Mookiemoo]

A train being labelled up still doesn't mean it will go there, some changes can literally be last minute.

Yes it can - but 99% of the time it doesnt - I'll play the odds

And yes - it can make a considerable difference - I (and others) are well settled in etc by the time the charge of the light brigade starts (especially on the earlier trains)

Andy yes, it did go wrong on me about 18 months ago - I ended up having to get off at Reading and wait for the train after the one I was intending to get!  But for all the times it works in my favour,  its a risk worth taking.

And FGW^▸ (First Great Western) got an extra 7.90 off me in the process

[vacman]

yyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwnnnn

[grahame]

yyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwnnnn

Hhmmm.  I don't agree.

Getting to Paddington perhaps 20 to 30 minutes before your train is due to leave, waiting on the concourse and balancing the food and drink you may have bought together with your normal luggage on a seat (if you're lucky) or standing and holing it,at Paddington for your platform to be announced, tired after a long meeting in town, is an unpleasant experience.  Then the unholy rush ("survival of the fittest") to get some of the few unreserved seats ... what a horrid way to start your journey home.

We're a nation of non-complainers.  And regular travellers want to remain on good terms with the staff they'll see time and again, and will tend to put up with even more - they'll get to know tricks to make the best of the system rather that say "this system sucks" which - in my view - it does.  I know that (personally) if can get to a starting perhaps quarter of an hour before my train is due to depart, get seated, read / snooze / work as the train fills up around me, I'll be far happier in my journey than if I had been through the Paddington Mill - and that will reflect on how I react to the employees of the company that gave me the nice experience, or put me through the ringer. It really would be in customer service interests to take a look at this, or at the very least explain why the current system cannot be improved

Are any answers available to the following?  Or any guesses?

How long before it leaves Paddington is the average train's platform announced? Are there any targets for this time, and if so are they met? By the time a platform is annoounced, how many people (on average) are in the station waiting to board?

Have people been asked / surveyed as to whether they like the current system?  If so, what did they say, and if people said they would like changes, have their requests been acted on?

[inspector_blakey]

One thing that always gets on my nerves is that the last train from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) (departing at 0021) always seems to depart from platform 13, an almost endless walk from the concourse through the rabbit warren that is the Thames Valley side of the station, whilst the main train shed is empty.

Can anyone enlighten as to why? The times I have caught it there has been no obvious engineering work, so I don't understand why that service could not leave from one of the platforms in the main trainshed that is a bit closer to the concourse! It's clearly not just a "screw the customer" attitude because by contrast late-night trains arriving in Oxford tend to terminate in platform 1 rather than 2, meaning that you don't have to cross the footbridge and have a much shorter walk to the exit (which is a good thing!).

[Oxman]

Although to be fair, the late night terminators at Oxford use the up platform so that they have a simple shunt movement into Rewley Road sidings. It just happens to be convenient for passengers, station staff and drivers!

No idea why it should be platform 13 at Paddington though.

[Tickets Please]

Ok, I had  CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) - full first class fir, no YP discount as I was at Slough in plenty of time to get ticket.  Got the 1732 - had to make a wee trip to Gloucester road so intended to get the 1922 home - which I did.  Saw the incoming OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) train arrive on its booked platform on Plat 3 so I thought, great - trains here.  Went to McD's (didnt get a chance to get lunch - was hungry - am ashamed) bought dinner - intention - get on train, chow down, settle down to work.

Except - at 1902 the ticket wouldnt let me through the barrier. Explained to gate staff I was going to Worcester - showed them my season, explained it left at 1922 so ticket was valid - no joy.  REfused to let me through the barrier because the train wasnt "announced"  - I knew and they knew it was the train.  The cleaning crew were leaving.

Dilemma - McD's getting cold - refuse to eat cold McD's and refuse to eat it with bags hanging off me on a platform!  Choice - go to ticket machine - buy an any time single to get through the barrier or let dinner go cold.

Jobsworth was not going to back down - FGW^▸ (First Great Western) got an extra 7.90 out of me.  McD's was revolting - but less revolting than cold McD's.

So - were the barrier staff being jobsworths or not? 

I say yes.

Have you ever considered that just because someone says something other than what you are expecting or says no to you that they might just be following the instructions they have been given by their employer? Bit unfair calling people jobsworths without knowing why people do things isnt it?

That set of rolling stock may NORMALLY form the 1922 but how do you know that it wasnt intended for a different service. This can happen for lots of different reasons.

If you had just had let through and they had stepped up that set for another service and you had left early on it or missed your train because it was leaving from a different platform you would then be complaining that the man on the barriers shouldnt have let you through or that he should have come down to the train personally and told you that things had changed.

Why dont you wait like 99.9999999999% of the other customers who wait until the train is anounced and then board.

"That set of rolling stock may NORMALLY form the 1922 but how do you know that it wasnt intended for a different service. " The Hereford stickers were already in the window

ahhh I see. If the Hereford window stickers are on the windows then it wont ever be changed - sorry, makes sense now.

[johoare]

Why dont you wait like 99.9999999999% of the other customers who wait until the train is anounced and then board.

I agree with Mookiemoo and Grahame on this one.. my experience at Paddington is that my train in the platform was always at least a quarter full before the platform was announced (the next slightly less brave quarter of people were standing as close to the barriers to the platform as they could get).. Those that chose to assume it would go from the same platform as always, also chose to risk being on the wrong train.. Much better than the sprint to the train when it was finally announced...

[johoare]

One thing that always gets on my nerves is that the last train from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) (departing at 0021) always seems to depart from platform 13, an almost endless walk from the concourse through the rabbit warren that is the Thames Valley side of the station, whilst the main train shed is empty.

Can anyone enlighten as to why? The times I have caught it there has been no obvious engineering work, so I don't understand why that service could not leave from one of the platforms in the main trainshed that is a bit closer to the concourse! It's clearly not just a "screw the customer" attitude because by contrast late-night trains arriving in Oxford tend to terminate in platform 1 rather than 2, meaning that you don't have to cross the footbridge and have a much shorter walk to the exit (which is a good thing!).

I set up a topic quite a while ago now about platforms 13 and 14 and their excessive use when other platforms were empty and got rather shot down in flames over it.. Apparently we should all arrive at Paddington ages before our train is due so that it doesn't matter if we have to walk miles to get to it.. 

I'll find my topic a bit later and post a link here for completeness... as it always concerns me to see the less abled people struggling to get to a train that they thought they had left loads of time to catch at Paddington, when in fact they hadn't, as it's practically parked at Royal Oak station!