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Title: TGV programme criticised for over-optimism Post by: stuving on October 18, 2014, 20:47:33 The obscure French Euro-politics magazine Contexte has published a piece (https://www.contexte.com/article/territoires/info-contexte-la-cour-des-comptes-denonce-l-asphyxie-du-modele-francais-de-la-grande-vitesse_26453.html) on an as yet unpublished report of the Cour des Comptes (which is like nothing we have - a very grand kind of Comptroller and Auditor-general, set up in 1807 but on a mediaeval model). The article says this will criticise not just the predictions of profitability, BCR in our planning terms, but the extent of political interference in the planning decisions and such aberrations. (I'd rather wait for that report than translate any bits of the current article.)
Of course the kind of BCR being used for HS2 and some other big projects includes "wider benefits". I'm not sure if the French process did that; I suspect the TGV system has always been claimed as worth doing for the SNCF in simple commercial terms. That's not to deny that social benefits were not intended, especially d^senclavement, but they may not have been quantified and used to justify the cost. Mind you, it's not exactly news that the TGV is losing money - it was announced in August that some changes would be needed, such as cuts in some little-used services and more of the "Ouigo" Ryanair-style trains. This piece in the Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2014/08/france-s-tgv) covered that story. Title: Re: TGV programme criticised for over-optimism Post by: stuving on October 26, 2014, 14:08:25 SNCF's internal proposals for increasing the revenue from TGVs have (in the usual french manner) leaked, this time to economiematin.fr (http://www.economiematin.fr/news-le-plan-secret-de-la-sncf-pour-le-tgv-hausse-des-tarifs-remboursement-plus-difficile). There's this short English report in Connexions.
Quote TGV fare rise plan with tougher rules October 25, 2014 THE SNCF is considering increasing prices on its high-speed TGVs and making ticket conditions stricter in an attempt to boost revenue. A leaked memo from the French rail operator's marketing department also suggests saving money by scrapping the buffet service on some second-class journeys. The ideas, published by EconomieMatin.fr, come after the national auditor, the Cour des Comptes, criticised the running of the TGV network and its cost to the taxpayer. It called on the government to stop subsidising unprofitable high-speed routes. The SNCF's leaked suggestions include a price rise, ranging from ^6 to ^12, on all tickets on the five main routes from Paris to Lyon, Marseille, Strasbourg, Lille and Bordeaux. This could make an extra ^10 million a year. First-class tickets would be made more expensive with a meal included as standard, except on Paris-Lille. It is also proposed that the bar service be removed for second-class passengers on journeys under three hours, with the exception of Paris-Lyon. The SNCF is also considering making it more difficult for travellers to obtain a refund or exchange for their ticket. One option would be to ban refunds in the week before travel and charge up to ^15 to swap on to another train, with exchanges not allowed in the 24 hours before the train leaves. - See more at: http://www.connexionfrance.com/sncf-considers-tgv-fare-rise-new-restrictions-refunds-exchanges-16289-view-article.html#sthash.skFhd9Jd.dpuf If withdrawing 2nd class catering is being considered, even in France, evidently it loses a lot of money. TGV bar/buffet services were let in a new contract not long ago, but presumably its viability is still in question. The menu (http://medias.sncf.com/sncfcom/pdf/restauration/Carte_Bar_TGV.pdf) is pretty large, but mostly snacks - some packaged as "meals". There are perhaps two "proper" meal options (one vegetarian) that's always the same. So to find none in the new IEP/SET just reflects a pan-European trend, I'm afraid. Title: Re: TGV programme criticised for over-optimism Post by: Rhydgaled on October 26, 2014, 14:18:56 If withdrawing 2nd class catering is being considered, even in France, evidently it loses a lot of money. TGV bar/buffet services were let in a new contract not long ago, but presumably its viability is still in question. The menu (http://medias.sncf.com/sncfcom/pdf/restauration/Carte_Bar_TGV.pdf) is pretty large, but mostly snacks - some packaged as "meals". There are perhaps two "proper" meal options (one vegetarian) that's always the same. So to find none in the new IEP/SET just reflects a pan-European trend, I'm afraid. I don't understand why axing standard class catering but keeping it in first class makes the service any more viable. Sure, providing seperate facilities as was initally proposed for IEP (there was a trailer buffet standard AS WELL AS the driving kitchen first) makes very little sense but surely if you have the staff cooking for first class pax anyway then the ability to sell a few more meals from the same kitchen by offering them to standard class as well would seem to be a way of increasing revenue from the kitchen for very little extra cost.Title: Re: TGV programme criticised for over-optimism Post by: ellendune on October 26, 2014, 14:21:27 You obviously didn't do bean-counting at school did you.
Title: Re: TGV programme criticised for over-optimism Post by: stuving on October 26, 2014, 14:29:43 If so many train operators, and concession-holders, have tried and failed I think you just have to accept it doesn't work. And remember that, at the time customers want meals from the buffet, there are no spare restaurant staff.
Another idea being considered is to bundle a compulsory meal with 1st class, as currently I think there is with "Business Pro". that suggests that the 1st class catering on its own may be seen as a money-loser. Title: Re: TGV programme criticised for over-optimism Post by: Brusselier on October 26, 2014, 18:04:30 I must admit hearing that there is catering for first class passengers on TGV is news to me. In the many times that I've taken TGV atlantique to Brittany, I've never had any form of catering offered apart from once when a member of staff offered to fetch something from the buffet (I had to give him the money to do this). TGVs are fitted with vending machines, so there will still be some access to food/drink.
Title: Re: TGV programme criticised for over-optimism Post by: stuving on October 26, 2014, 18:25:07 I must admit hearing that there is catering for first class passengers on TGV is news to me. In the many times that I've taken TGV atlantique to Brittany, I've never had any form of catering offered apart from once when a member of staff offered to fetch something from the buffet (I had to give him the money to do this). TGVs are fitted with vending machines, so there will still be some access to food/drink. And they may do more trolley service, too. What they currently claim to offer strikes me as rather confused, and may have changed a bit with the relaunch and new contractor. The at-seat meals are (extras) in Pro Premiere, not "standard" 1st. That seems to be different from the Pro tickets, which come as both 2nd and 1st. And the meals do seem to be rather the airline-plastic served-in-a-box type. One of the headlines in the Economie Matin article refers to 25% of Pro Premiere passengers switching to 2nd, though there is no supporting text. So it almost looks like a shift towards a higher premium for 1st with more service, and lower numbers - i.e. more like in Britain. Or maybe I'm reading to much into what is only rumour and hearsay about something still being discussed inside SNCF... This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |