I'm getting to like Lord Adonis more and more

It will be a great pity if the result of (F)GW Electrification limits our line to 125/140 mph, rather than the TGV performance that Brunel allowed for.

Perhaps we should be "First".

OTC

It will be a great pity if the result of (F)GW Electrification limits our line to 125/140 mph, rather than the TGV performance that Brunel allowed for.

Perhaps we should be "First".

OTC

IF we do go along with this I sincerely hope that it's engineered correctly and the a significant proportion of the route is FOUR tracked, so that ultra express services, I suggest that there is at least one non stopper Glasgow - London per day, express services say stopping Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle can run alongside those stopping at other stations en route. This will also allow limited use of the LGV by other services too.

The problem with the uk is the fact that the major citites are too close together to sustain any worthwile high speed running.

If Lord Adonis, rather than John Prescott, had been in charge of transport when Labour took power, with the money and mandate to do great things, who knows what might have happened? Indeed, if David Cameron wants to give his own transport plans real credibility, he should think laterally, and find a place for Lord Adonis in a Tory government.

Nice to see yesterday's Daily Telegraph where their leader commented on keeping Lord Adonis on as transport secretary after the next election being a good idea:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/5979413/High-speed-derailment.html

But as I've said before, Adonis has ruled this out himself several times .

IF we do go along with this I sincerely hope that it's engineered correctly and the a significant proportion of the route is FOUR tracked, so that ultra express services, I suggest that there is at least one non stopper Glasgow - London per day, express services say stopping Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle can run alongside those stopping at other stations en route. This will also allow limited use of the LGV by other services too.

But Lazarus wasn't running for election in the UK, with a skewed first past the post election system giving you huge majorities in the Commons on about 40 per cent of the votes and a tired government on its last legs after 12 years in office. Plus Dave will get a slightly easier ride from certain national newspapers than Mr Kinnock did in 1992.

But if those masts are planted laterally 100mm too close......

OTC

The thing I think that was short sighted about HS1 is the line speed. It should have been 200 or 250 mph - in common with current HSL constructions.

With a fleet of 186mph trains?

No offence, but sometime I wonder what planet you are on 

     I tend to think that the argument that a new high speed line, misses too many major towns or cities, misses the point.
     
     Surely the existing network will allow passengers from places like Milton Keynes or Rugby to feed into the High Speed line at Birmingham.   After all - when you catch a flight from Heathrow to Athens for example - you would't expect it to pick up at Brussels, Berlin, Zurich or Rome on the way.

     The whole point, surely, is reduce the travelling time over long distances.

     Even a journey combining a feeder service, together with the High Speed link, would still offer a good reduction on current journey times.

And I think the plan is for Birmingham to be severed by a London facing branch, giving Britain's second city NO direct high speed link North.

I haven't read it because I am bored of countless "reports" and "plans".

I haven't read it because I am bored of countless "reports" and "plans".

Is this NR's preferred route?

Puts you at a bit of a disadvantage when putting forward your views on the subject then?

Birmingham could get two new multi-million pound railway stations if proposals for a high-speed rail network get the go-ahead.

The first line is expected to be built between London and the West Midlands with trains running at more than 200mph, cutting journey times to less than 45 minutes from the Midlands to London.

The BBC has learned that as part of plans to accommodate the new line, Birmingham will probably need two new stations.

The first would be close to the city centre, probably in the under-developed Eastside area.

A second station is likely to be built close to Birmingham International Airport and the National Exhibition Centre (NEC), with easy access to the motorway network.

Those involved in planning high-speed lines agree New Street station, which is due for a major redevelopment, will not be suitable, although it would continue to serve the non-high speed services.

It is understood potential sites for the stations will be included in a report, due to be handed to transport ministers at the end of this month.

The report has been compiled by High Speed Two (HS2), a special company set up by the government earlier this year. Its sole aim is to plan the first line to the West Midlands, but it has also been advising ministers on options to go further north in the future.
 
High-speed rail campaigners have maintained that having two stations in Birmingham would make "perfect sense".

Jim Steer, director of campaign group Greengauge 21, said: "We will have to see the report, but my guess is that it is pretty likely. There is a very strong case for a city centre station and equally I think they will find, as our work has found, there is a very good case for a station at perhaps Birmingham International Airport."

In recent months there has been a long and drawn out debate about exactly where a high-speed station for the West Midlands should be.

Some have argued high-speed rail systems work best when lines go directly into city centres.

Others, like officials from the airport and NEC, have backed plans for an "interchange" station there.

Paul Kehoe, chief executive of the airport, said: "We truly believe in an integrated transport solution and a station here with the NEC, the airport and the M42 is a fantastic location. So let's get on with it."

Although the report will be completed by the end of December, it is not clear when it will be officially published.

The government has said it is committed to launching a public consultation in 2010, however those plans will almost certainly be delayed by the general election.

It is hoped that despite the impending election, ministers will publish the report either in February or March.
 
High-speed rail plans have achieved cross-party support and it is expected that whichever party forms the next government, planning work will continue.

But there are already concerns about the impact a high-speed line could have on the communities through which it might pass.

The report is likely to put forward several potential routes. And while the speculation about the routes continues, each of the areas which could be potentially disrupted could suffer lengthy periods of blight, where property values fall and houses become more difficult to sell.

Chartered surveyor Steven Hinton said: "It's likely to be sometime before we have a definitive route and particularly in an election year, the more delay there is, the more blight there will be and the more hardship there will be for families."

Building a high-speed network will cost tens of billions of pounds, which is expected to come from a mixture of public and private sector sources.

Planning the network is also expected to take several years to complete.

Early estimates suggest construction of the first line to the West Midlands could start in 2015 with the line opening in the early-2020s.

The report is likely to put forward several potential routes.

Wednesday should see the announcement of the preferred route option for HS2 to the Midlands and options further North, press speculation seems to suggest a new Terminus in London effectively combining Euston, the new HS station and Kings Cross St Pancras as the southern end.

Wednesday should see the announcement of the preferred route option for HS2 to the Midlands and options further North, press speculation seems to suggest a new Terminus in London effectively combining Euston, the new HS station and Kings Cross St Pancras as the southern end.

High-speed rail plans to be submitted to government

A major new station in the heart of London will be part of plans for a north-south high-speed rail line to be submitted to the government this week.

The first stage of the 250mph new line - from the capital to the West Midlands - could open by 2025.

The station would cater for up to 18 trains and 20,000 passengers an hour.

The proposal is in a report by the High Speed Two (HS2) company which has been set up by ministers to identify a viable route for the new line.

HS2 will put forward options for possible connections to Heathrow Airport and to the Channel Tunnel rail link, known as High Speed One (HS1).
 
The company says it has looked at 35 potential sites for a new station in London, but has plumped for one right in the heart of the capital.

There will be detailed proposals for the route of the line between London and the West Midlands - accurate to within 18 inches - and more general plans for its extension beyond that to Scotland.

A range of costs will be included for construction of the line which could start by 2017.

HS2 chief executive Alison Munro said it was asked to look at linking the line with the cross-London Crossrail project, the Great Western main line and Heathrow. "The report will set out a case for various options including a possible link with HS1," she said. "The proposals will include running trains from the HS2 on to the West Coast Main Line. This will not be a transport project in isolation. The final report will look at how the line will help housing and regional economic development. There will be significant levels of detail."

If the government decides to go ahead with high-speed rail it will publish a White Paper by next April.

The document would set out details such as route proposals, timescales and associated financial, economic and environmental assessments.

If they built a New High Speed Route to Plymouth...

Adonis: 2010 will be the 'Year of High Speed Rail'

Transport Secretary Andrew Adonis has predicted 2010 will be the year of high-speed rail in the UK on the day he received what could prove to be a landmark report for the future of transport in this country.

High Speed Two - the company set up to advise the Government on the development of high-speed rail services between London and Scotland - delivers its highly-anticipated report today. The study is the most detailed examination ever undertaken of how to take forward high-speed rail in Britain.

Andrew Adonis said:

"This is an important report which will shape the future of high-speed rail in this country.

"High-speed rail has real potential to regenerate and reinvigorate. Our high-speed network lags behind that of many of our European neighbours and doesn't connect any of our major cities, but this report could change that.

^I am excited about the possibilities that high-speed rail has to transform transport in this country for the better, providing environmental benefits, encouraging investment and boosting business and jobs.

"Scrutiny of the report will begin immediately and we will announce how we plan to take high speed rail forward by the end of March - making 2010 the year of high speed rail in the UK."

The report from High Speed Two (HS2) presents a detailed route plan for the first stage of a north-south high-speed line, from London to the West Midlands, as well as options for extending high-speed services, and high speed lines, to destinations further north, including the North West, the East Midlands, Yorkshire, the North East and Scotland.

If the Government decides to pursue proposals for high-speed rail, it will publish a white paper by the end of March 2010. The white paper will set out detailed plans for new high-speed rail lines and services, including route proposals, timescales and associated financial, economic, and environmental assessments. This would be followed by a full public consultation starting in the Autumn of 2010, giving all interested parties an opportunity to comment before the proposals are finalised.

Notes to editors

The Government will not publish the HS2 report in advance of the Government^s response, as to do so would cause unnecessary blight in respect of options identified but not taken forward. The HS2 report will be published alongside the Government response.

HS2's business case will be supported by technical assessments, including demand forecasts and an assessment of the potential for shifting journeys to high-speed rail from air and road.  For the route between London and the West Midlands, HS2^s report will include: design specifications; environmental assessments; and, costs, funding and delivery structures.

You might as well spend half the money 6 tracking the WCML to Rugby

Am I alone in being a little pessimistic for what the future holds for 'UK Rail'? There are a whole raft of aspirational network improvements out there, but I worry that a (likely) change of Government will put the ky-bosh on most, if not all, of the large projects. I cannot see where the money is going to come from. Govt. purse strings are likely to be tightened severely and private capital, with the entailing financial risk, is very unlikely to be forthcoming.

I fear another period of make-do and mend, rather than any great leaps forward.

A HSL just to the West Mids is a waste of time. You might as well spend half the money 6 tracking the WCML to Rugby (providing similar journey time reductions to Birmingham, but also shaving time off ALL routes on the WCML), with links put in at Wembley to Heathrow and HS1.

Then use the money saved on a similar scheme for the GWML, 2 new tracks to Reading, link to Heathrow, etc.

[snip]

So, lets just upgrade what we have...a damn successful railway, dedicated people, with damn successful 125s (retentive tanks notwithstanding)...and rejoice.

Flyovers and tunnels. And the new tracks wouldn't have to stick to the rest of the route, as trains using the express tracks would not be stopping before Reading.

My thanks go to Nicki Pittman (CANBER) & Graham Ellis (Save The Train) for their assistance with the maps below.

But, in order to shift significant traffic off of the roads and airways (which is HS2's main selling point in helping to reduce emissions), speeds between the major cities do need improving.

Not sure how St Andrews Rd slows down intercity journeys, but you could try this...

You can now fly Bristol-Newcastle or Manchester-Bristol.  Would HS rail take any of those markets?  No because it wouldn't go to Bristol, but speeding up the existing XC network preferably including electrification, slashing of slack and scrapping the Vomitors might. 

Will the New Heathrow Airport station be built under this new plan

As I've said before here, the facility itself will cause demand, people will, if the fares are reasonable use the facility and expand their personal footprints regularly. Passengers will undertake regular trips to other destination cities for shopping and leisure purposes. It will also encourage a much larger travel to work area for cities such as London, Birmingham and Manchester, resulting in the levelling out of property prices in the South East overtime.

I agree that more people will travel further if speeds are increased.  The HST expanded London's commuter belt out to Chippenham and Bath,  HS2 could take it out to Manchester and Preston.  But if you take that route of arguement you can't simultaneously argue that HS rail is green.  The green solution is for most London workers to live nearish to London and Most people who live in manchester to have reasonably local jobs. 

Industry Insider makes some very sensible points about integrating new HS lines with modestly improved classic lines in order to get more towns onto the network and improve losts of journeys not just a few point to point ones.

Tories deny playing politics over high-speed rail plan

Shadow transport secretary Theresa Villiers has denied "playing politics" over the construction of a high-speed rail link from London to the Midlands. She confirmed that the the Tories had turned down an offer to view a copy of government plans for the route. But she said they were "not going to take Labour's route on trust" and would "reserve the right to look again" at plans once they are made public.

The government said it wanted to build a cross-party consensus on the issue.

Both the Conservatives and Lib Dems want a 250mph rail route instead of a third runway at Heathrow - the government wants one in addition to airport expansion.

The Tories have signalled their support for a high-speed route to include Heathrow, while Labour appears to favour a link or loop to the airport.

A White Paper on the new line linking London with the West Midlands is due next month and will be followed by a public consultation on options for the route.

Ms Villiers told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the paper would be "a very important contribution" to the debate, but the Conservatives did not want it "to close down the options". "We don't want there to be some cosy deal reached behind closed doors which closes out the communities that may be affected by the route," she said. "We're not going to take Labour's route on trust. We're going to reserve the right to look again at the route." She said there were "important areas of consensus" between the parties on the issue but the Conservatives would not look at the report until the public could see it as well. "We're not playing politics with this issue. It's enormously important and where the route goes will be enormously important in getting the maximum benefit from high-speed rail and also in minimising the impact on local communities affected by the route. We want to make sure that all those communities have the right get involved in the debate... before final decisions are taken."

Transport Secretary Lord Adonis said he was "very surprised" at Ms Villiers' comments, as the Conservatives had been "engaging" in the process so far. "Without political consensus on the principle of high-speed rail, it is unlikely to be taken forward as a national project in the next decade," he said. "But there will of course be public consultation on any route proposal put forward by the government."

Lib Dem transport spokesman Norman Baker said: "This peculiar decision of the Tories coupled with [shadow chancellor George] Osborne's spending cuts strongly suggest that the Tories are trying to kick high-speed rail into the long grass. The Tories can't be trusted with our railways."

Early plans suggest the new line would involve 400-metre long trains, capable of carrying 1,100 passengers, and would come at a cost of ^60bn. If the government accepts plans given to it by HS2, the company set up to deliver the project, building work could begin in 2017, with the first trains running in 2025.

Ms Villiers said that if the Tories won the next election, it would take another four to five years of planning and preparation before construction could start on a new line. That time frame would increase if they decided to rework the route suggested by Labour but she added: "We are still determined to deliver this project and deliver it in a timely and cost effective way."

Prof Stephen Glaister, director of motoring body the RAC Foundation, said: "All parties are advocating HSR [high-speed rail], yet Theresa Villiers is refusing the opportunity to see the official, independent, study into a new line, and the public might well conclude that she is happy to base her party's views more on faith than fact. One is left wondering whether she now believes the HS2 report won't be as supportive of a new north-south line as everyone is being led to believe." Prof Glaister said the White Paper should be published immediately in order to make clear the arguments for and against the new line.

An unusually easy ride given to Andrew Adonis by Paxo, perhaps time constraints didn't allow him to push the point about how much HS2 is expected to cost. Paxo could also have pressed him further on the favoured route(s) contained in the report which Andrew Adonis is currently sitting on.

Listened to Theresa Villiers this am didn't understand a word except they (the Tories) are not going to look at the report until it's published.

Can anyone explain why?

The UK quite simply doesn't need a High Speed line. It will benefit only a fraction of people, now lets get some new DMUs ordered helping to alleviate overcrowding across the whole country.

I'm tempted to agree despite the mouth watering journey times. BUT the WCML needs more capacity. So add a 5th or 6th track as far as Rugby and spend the rest of the money on DMUs, electrification.

I didn't see the report but I am sorry to read this analysis.  For those like me who grew up with a downtrodden railway recovering from Beeching, all talk of High Speed Rail brings out wild enthusiasm.

My guess is that the preferred route is the old GWR main line to Birmingham, re-instating four tracking through most of the route.

There is a train on most days from Paddington that takes this route (11 00 or so Princes Risborough).  Take the train and see the potential.   

I'm sorry to see that, having supposedly backed High Speed Rail, the Conservatives seem now to be having cold feet.

Not a good sign for the future.  And there I will leave politics......

I'm disappointed to find such a lack of enthusiasm for high-speed rail in the coffee shop.