| What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by grahame at 06:19, 7th January 2019 |     |
18:42 Swindon to Gloucester is 32 min late, Do not know why this is, Although seemed late going to Cheltenham last time round.
Copied from another thread ... on another board ...
The Swindon to Cheltenham Spa local service has been horrendously inefficient over the last decade. A local (sprinter unit) service every 2 hours, with a running time from Swindon departure to Cheltenham Spa arrival of just under 70 minutes has meant that 2 trains (diagrams) have been needed with 140 minutes out or 240 running time - so around 43% idle time. Deeply frustrating to see a unit parked up in the bay at Swindon so much of the time when the TransWilts is deparate for a decent service (remember - we have gone up from useless only to poor) but that is another story.
Were the local service to be hourly, idle time would drop to between 20% and 25% - pretty good as far as the train(s) are concerned, with a fair compromise between as full running as possible and recovery time, bearing in mind the need to knit in at both ends with other lines and services. And increasing the number of units from 2 to 3 (50%) would increase the service level by 100%.
With Swindon to Didcot closed yesterday, I think this is what happened. However, train efficiency does not equate to staff efficiency, where tere's a legal requirement for a 30 minute personal needs break - and as far as I can see one of the three units got very much behind hand during the day, got blocked and further delayed as it avoided other trains that were around, and furthermore appears to have been parked up for 30 minutes at Cheltenham Spa which is probably accounted for by a personal needs break / same crew in use rather than having another crew to take over and use the unit effcieicntly.
For the future, rather academic as the units are to be replaced by all through London trains on this route - and the metrics will change. Not least because units could be swapped at Paddington with units on another route to get the timings / efficieny better. And - whilst Dispatch Box may be having a little grump at this delay, it's a darned site better that the - well, I can only use the words "thoughless", "operational convenience" or "contempt" shown for the TransWits passengers yesterday, who's service was terminated at Chippenham, NOT shown on the advanced engineering poster as such, and seemed designed to fail to connect. See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20903.msg255946#msg255946
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Dispatch Box at 12:21, 7th January 2019 | |
Pardon!!, Was not intending to be grumpy, Just put that as following it on Opentraintimes, Anyway why was a train to Swindon suddenly cut short to Chippenham, I assume there were quite a numbers of passengers on this train.
To just say, we constantly kept suffering with this last year, when you get on a train to Great Malvern starting from Weymouth or Westbury only to find it terminating at Worcester shrub hill while on the train somewhere on route up by Ashchurch and you had tickets to Great Malvern.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by patch38 at 13:26, 7th January 2019 | |
For the future, rather academic as the units are to be replaced by all through London trains on this route - and the metrics will change.
Do we know when this is due to happen? With the May timetable changes or at a later date?
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by IndustryInsider at 14:50, 7th January 2019 | |
Next Jan I believe - along with the major changes on most other routes.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Dispatch Box at 19:40, 7th January 2019 | |
It would make more sense if the I.E.Ts could run hourly from Cheltenham to London Paddington, and the smaller ones run hourly from Cheltenham to Westbury via Melksham
This would mean there would then be a half hourly service to Swindon, each stopping at Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble Then plat 1 for a London and plat 2 for the Westbury.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by CMRail at 21:54, 7th January 2019 | |
It would make more sense if the I.E.Ts could run hourly from Cheltenham to London Paddington, and the smaller ones run hourly from Cheltenham to Westbury via Melksham
This would mean there would then be a half hourly service to Swindon, each stopping at Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble Then plat 1 for a London and plat 2 for the Westbury.
This would mean there would then be a half hourly service to Swindon, each stopping at Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble Then plat 1 for a London and plat 2 for the Westbury.
Exactly what is happening in the December 3019 timetable change.
(to the nearest hundred years)
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Celestial at 10:25, 8th January 2019 | |
It would make more sense if the I.E.Ts could run hourly from Cheltenham to London Paddington, and the smaller ones run hourly from Cheltenham to Westbury via Melksham
I guess it depends what you mean by "make more sense". The suggestion would mean twice as many trains on the Gloucester to Swindon line, which will obviously cost a lot more to operate. So it only makes sense if there is enough passenger demand for more trains, and either the extra income justifies it or someone is willing to pay for it. Unless that decision is made then I would have thought an hourly service on the Melksham line would be better off self contained, so as not to complicate matters.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Dispatch Box at 13:33, 8th January 2019 | |
It would make more sense if the I.E.Ts could run hourly from Cheltenham to London Paddington, and the smaller ones run hourly from Cheltenham to Westbury via Melksham
I guess it depends what you mean by "make more sense". The suggestion would mean twice as many trains on the Gloucester to Swindon line, which will obviously cost a lot more to operate. So it only makes sense if there is enough passenger demand for more trains, and either the extra income justifies it or someone is willing to pay for it. Unless that decision is made then I would have thought an hourly service on the Melksham line would be better off self contained, so as not to complicate matters.
The make more sense bit, was included to read, that trains from Westbury would run to Cheltenham allowing people a faster service than going via Bristol to Great malvern, which often gets delayed. Maybe it would be better to serve Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble on this service and run the Londons right through and not stop at these stations. Surely must be more cost effective, also Melksham does have a better service than ending at Swindon.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Dispatch Box at 13:43, 8th January 2019 | |
Next Jan I believe - along with the major changes on most other routes.
Oh no!!!! Why that long, I will be nearly grey by then.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Celestial at 15:09, 8th January 2019 | |
The make more sense bit, was included to read, that trains from Westbury would run to Cheltenham allowing people a faster service than going via Bristol to Great malvern, which often gets delayed. Maybe it would be better to serve Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble on this service and run the Londons right through and not stop at these stations. Surely must be more cost effective, also Melksham does have a better service than ending at Swindon.
I've also read that there are hopes that the service through Melksham continues on to Salisbury and beyond, and I expect this would be a more logical link up when you consider possible traffic flows. If you linked it at both ends to include Cheltenham then would such a long service then have the same sort of reliability problems you mention on the services to Great Malvern today?
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by IndustryInsider at 15:12, 8th January 2019 | |
Yes, the direct hourly London service is the big win here. It will of course be a bonus if it has good connections at Swindon with the west and south, good connections at Didcot for Oxford, good connections at Reading for Gatwick etc. Perhaps the odd additional service formed of a DMU could run to help with peak demand, and I guess that could be an extension of a TransWilts service, but certainly an all-day 2tph service is too much to ask for at the moment.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by grahame at 15:53, 8th January 2019 | |
We have ourselves in this discussion as a we have drifted away from the issues at the weekend.
Big win - big capacity increase, Swindon to Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa, almost all trains through from London at the major timetable change. 2 and 3 car trains on the run are up to at least 5 cars. Increasing further to add in a 2 or 3 car train that doubles the capacity on that would require a very strong business case on top of the one made successfully but not yet implemented for the London extensions and routinely longer trains.
Now - what's missing from Swindon's service? A fast service to Birmingham (reverse at Gloucester seems to take an age on the way up North!). And a decent service to Oxford. With Swindon looking to join the Heart of England Subregional grouping, it's looking at a future with Oxford and it's perverse for that near-city at the western extreme of that area to be reliant a single carriageway A420 or an M4/A34 dogleg nearly to Newbury, and with a frequent but slow bus service or trains that involve a pretty randomly connecting none-pattern at Didcot.
So - a better use of one of the two units release off the Stroud Valley would be an extension to Oxford from the TransWilts. It's already a major flow for people, it's very poor by rail at the moment, it gives excellent connections onward to Coventry and Birmingham, it links up the way the regions will be linking up, and it looks forward to Manjana when the train are running from Oxford to Milton Keynes, with West Coast main line connections. In fact, the same train may as well carry on from Oxford.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by eXPassenger at 18:17, 8th January 2019 | |
So - a better use of one of the two units release off the Stroud Valley would be an extension to Oxford from the TransWilts. It's already a major flow for people, it's very poor by rail at the moment, it gives excellent connections onward to Coventry and Birmingham, it links up the way the regions will be linking up, and it looks forward to Manjana when the train are running from Oxford to Milton Keynes, with West Coast main line connections. In fact, the same train may as well carry on from Oxford.
In summary grahame you are proposing to extend EW Rail to Southampton - Milton Keynes/Bedford. Some empire building!
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by CMRail at 19:36, 8th January 2019 | |
We have ourselves in this discussion as a we have drifted away from the issues at the weekend.
Big win - big capacity increase, Swindon to Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa, almost all trains through from London at the major timetable change. 2 and 3 car trains on the run are up to at least 5 cars. Increasing further to add in a 2 or 3 car train that doubles the capacity on that would require a very strong business case on top of the one made successfully but not yet implemented for the London extensions and routinely longer trains.
Now - what's missing from Swindon's service? A fast service to Birmingham (reverse at Gloucester seems to take an age on the way up North!). And a decent service to Oxford. With Swindon looking to join the Heart of England Subregional grouping, it's looking at a future with Oxford and it's perverse for that near-city at the western extreme of that area to be reliant a single carriageway A420 or an M4/A34 dogleg nearly to Newbury, and with a frequent but slow bus service or trains that involve a pretty randomly connecting none-pattern at Didcot.
So - a better use of one of the two units release off the Stroud Valley would be an extension to Oxford from the TransWilts. It's already a major flow for people, it's very poor by rail at the moment, it gives excellent connections onward to Coventry and Birmingham, it links up the way the regions will be linking up, and it looks forward to Manjana when the train are running from Oxford to Milton Keynes, with West Coast main line connections. In fact, the same train may as well carry on from Oxford.
Big win - big capacity increase, Swindon to Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa, almost all trains through from London at the major timetable change. 2 and 3 car trains on the run are up to at least 5 cars. Increasing further to add in a 2 or 3 car train that doubles the capacity on that would require a very strong business case on top of the one made successfully but not yet implemented for the London extensions and routinely longer trains.
Now - what's missing from Swindon's service? A fast service to Birmingham (reverse at Gloucester seems to take an age on the way up North!). And a decent service to Oxford. With Swindon looking to join the Heart of England Subregional grouping, it's looking at a future with Oxford and it's perverse for that near-city at the western extreme of that area to be reliant a single carriageway A420 or an M4/A34 dogleg nearly to Newbury, and with a frequent but slow bus service or trains that involve a pretty randomly connecting none-pattern at Didcot.
So - a better use of one of the two units release off the Stroud Valley would be an extension to Oxford from the TransWilts. It's already a major flow for people, it's very poor by rail at the moment, it gives excellent connections onward to Coventry and Birmingham, it links up the way the regions will be linking up, and it looks forward to Manjana when the train are running from Oxford to Milton Keynes, with West Coast main line connections. In fact, the same train may as well carry on from Oxford.
And the issue is Gloucester. You have a massive revenue spot and probably a lot of people using it but the fact it takes around a decade to reverse it just causes delays even greaterly.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by grahame at 21:29, 8th January 2019 | |
And the issue is Gloucester. You have a massive revenue spot and probably a lot of people using it but the fact it takes around a decade to reverse it just causes delays even greaterly.
Agreed, Gloucester is a source of considerable revenue. And to acknowledge that, as from (?) end of this year, Gloucester's train service direct to London goes up from one every 2 hours to one an hour.
Doesn't do badly on some other fronts too - look at this comparative for trips to Birmingham:
Gloucester to Birmingham 69 miles, population 130,000. Train journey just under 1 hour, hourly train without changes
Swindon to Birmingham 93 miles, population 200,000. Train journey 2 hours 5 minutes, 1 or 2 changes
I suspect there is a far better business case for Swindon - Oxford - making for good journeys beyond there to Milton Keynes, to Coventy and to Birmingham that there is for another train up the Stroud Valley, which to a greater or lesser extrent would compete with / abstract traffic from the higher capaity to London being provided, calling at exacely the same stations.
Gloucester may have a case for
a) Hourly rather that two hourly to Worcester
b) Improvements on the Journey to Bristol, which a few trains do in 37 minutes but most take around 53, and they're only running hourly.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Dispatch Box at 13:28, 9th January 2019 | |
We have ourselves in this discussion as a we have drifted away from the issues at the weekend.
Big win - big capacity increase, Swindon to Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa, almost all trains through from London at the major timetable change. 2 and 3 car trains on the run are up to at least 5 cars. Increasing further to add in a 2 or 3 car train that doubles the capacity on that would require a very strong business case on top of the one made successfully but not yet implemented for the London extensions and routinely longer trains.
Now - what's missing from Swindon's service? A fast service to Birmingham (reverse at Gloucester seems to take an age on the way up North!). And a decent service to Oxford. With Swindon looking to join the Heart of England Subregional grouping, it's looking at a future with Oxford and it's perverse for that near-city at the western extreme of that area to be reliant a single carriageway A420 or an M4/A34 dogleg nearly to Newbury, and with a frequent but slow bus service or trains that involve a pretty randomly connecting none-pattern at Didcot.
So - a better use of one of the two units release off the Stroud Valley would be an extension to Oxford from the TransWilts. It's already a major flow for people, it's very poor by rail at the moment, it gives excellent connections onward to Coventry and Birmingham, it links up the way the regions will be linking up, and it looks forward to Manjana when the train are running from Oxford to Milton Keynes, with West Coast main line connections. In fact, the same train may as well carry on from Oxford.
Big win - big capacity increase, Swindon to Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa, almost all trains through from London at the major timetable change. 2 and 3 car trains on the run are up to at least 5 cars. Increasing further to add in a 2 or 3 car train that doubles the capacity on that would require a very strong business case on top of the one made successfully but not yet implemented for the London extensions and routinely longer trains.
Now - what's missing from Swindon's service? A fast service to Birmingham (reverse at Gloucester seems to take an age on the way up North!). And a decent service to Oxford. With Swindon looking to join the Heart of England Subregional grouping, it's looking at a future with Oxford and it's perverse for that near-city at the western extreme of that area to be reliant a single carriageway A420 or an M4/A34 dogleg nearly to Newbury, and with a frequent but slow bus service or trains that involve a pretty randomly connecting none-pattern at Didcot.
So - a better use of one of the two units release off the Stroud Valley would be an extension to Oxford from the TransWilts. It's already a major flow for people, it's very poor by rail at the moment, it gives excellent connections onward to Coventry and Birmingham, it links up the way the regions will be linking up, and it looks forward to Manjana when the train are running from Oxford to Milton Keynes, with West Coast main line connections. In fact, the same train may as well carry on from Oxford.
And the issue is Gloucester. You have a massive revenue spot and probably a lot of people using it but the fact it takes around a decade to reverse it just causes delays even greaterly.
What we need in Gloucester Charlie is a pot of money from the D.F.I. The present station being demolished and replaced with 2 platforms, remove the old plat 1 and renumber 4 plat 1. Then build a new smaller station with a buffet and ticket office. Then build a new station outside with 1 island platform and 2 outer ones, Then call it Gloucester parkway.
But I have a problem as to where it could be sited, all the land in the most sensible places has been developed, and also the lines are on a raised embankment.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Dispatch Box at 13:58, 9th January 2019 | |
I have also got my thinking cap on, I was wondering whether a service from Birmingham NS to London Paddington could also be added which would run from Birmingham down the line to Westerleigh junction then up to London via Swindon, It would require the curve at Westerleigh to need reinstating. It should at least provide Swindon with a service where people would not need to change, Could also go via Stroud but we would have a lot of trains on this route and would need to made much better, by track relaying and may also need the signals respaced.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by martyjon at 14:22, 9th January 2019 | |
I have also got my thinking cap on, I was wondering whether a service from Birmingham NS to London Paddington could also be added which would run from Birmingham down the line to Westerleigh junction then up to London via Swindon, It would require the curve at Westerleigh to need reinstating. It should at least provide Swindon with a service where people would not need to change, Could also go via Stroud but we would have a lot of trains on this route and would need to made much better, by track relaying and may also need the signals respaced.
There was a plan a few years ago for Virgin Cross Country to run cut down 5 coach HST's from Birmingham New Street to London Paddington via Cheltenham and Swindon and as part of this plan Swindon - Gloucester/Cheltenham services were transferred to Virgin XC but after the transfer it was discovered that there were insufficient paths into the London Terminus so the service was transferred back. I am sure there was a thread on this perhaps the moderators can post a link to that thread.
It would be a VERY remote possibility to re-instate the east curve at Westerleigh as all the land within what was the Westerleigh triangle is now owned by South Gloucestershire Council and a local community organisation and has partly been developed.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by CMRail at 19:13, 9th January 2019 | |
And the issue is Gloucester. You have a massive revenue spot and probably a lot of people using it but the fact it takes around a decade to reverse it just causes delays even greaterly.
Agreed, Gloucester is a source of considerable revenue. And to acknowledge that, as from (?) end of this year, Gloucester's train service direct to London goes up from one every 2 hours to one an hour.
Doesn't do badly on some other fronts too - look at this comparative for trips to Birmingham:
Gloucester to Birmingham 69 miles, population 130,000. Train journey just under 1 hour, hourly train without changes
Swindon to Birmingham 93 miles, population 200,000. Train journey 2 hours 5 minutes, 1 or 2 changes
I suspect there is a far better business case for Swindon - Oxford - making for good journeys beyond there to Milton Keynes, to Coventy and to Birmingham that there is for another train up the Stroud Valley, which to a greater or lesser extrent would compete with / abstract traffic from the higher capaity to London being provided, calling at exacely the same stations.
Gloucester may have a case for
a) Hourly rather that two hourly to Worcester
b) Improvements on the Journey to Bristol, which a few trains do in 37 minutes but most take around 53, and they're only running hourly.
MP says he’s in talks with GWR for a half hourly stopper and then speeding up others, and also cross country have agreed to call three more a day. However really I don’t believe him until I see it with my own eyes. It would be nice for a Swindon-Birmingham service and anyone who travels when filton bank is blocked you would know that a considerable amount of people boarded/alighted at Swindon.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Dispatch Box at 19:43, 9th January 2019 | |
And the issue is Gloucester. You have a massive revenue spot and probably a lot of people using it but the fact it takes around a decade to reverse it just causes delays even greaterly.
Agreed, Gloucester is a source of considerable revenue. And to acknowledge that, as from (?) end of this year, Gloucester's train service direct to London goes up from one every 2 hours to one an hour.
Doesn't do badly on some other fronts too - look at this comparative for trips to Birmingham:
Gloucester to Birmingham 69 miles, population 130,000. Train journey just under 1 hour, hourly train without changes
Swindon to Birmingham 93 miles, population 200,000. Train journey 2 hours 5 minutes, 1 or 2 changes
I suspect there is a far better business case for Swindon - Oxford - making for good journeys beyond there to Milton Keynes, to Coventy and to Birmingham that there is for another train up the Stroud Valley, which to a greater or lesser extrent would compete with / abstract traffic from the higher capaity to London being provided, calling at exacely the same stations.
Gloucester may have a case for
a) Hourly rather that two hourly to Worcester
b) Improvements on the Journey to Bristol, which a few trains do in 37 minutes but most take around 53, and they're only running hourly.
MP says he’s in talks with GWR for a half hourly stopper and then speeding up others, and also cross country have agreed to call three more a day. However really I don’t believe him until I see it with my own eyes. It would be nice for a Swindon-Birmingham service and anyone who travels when filton bank is blocked you would know that a considerable amount of people boarded/alighted at Swindon.
At the moment, the only Birmingham's we have is from Cardiff. Who would operate a Swindon to Birmingham, at the moment GWR do not go through Birmingham.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Dispatch Box at 20:28, 12th January 2019 | |
It would make more sense if the I.E.Ts could run hourly from Cheltenham to London Paddington, and the smaller ones run hourly from Cheltenham to Westbury via Melksham
I guess it depends what you mean by "make more sense". The suggestion would mean twice as many trains on the Gloucester to Swindon line, which will obviously cost a lot more to operate. So it only makes sense if there is enough passenger demand for more trains, and either the extra income justifies it or someone is willing to pay for it. Unless that decision is made then I would have thought an hourly service on the Melksham line would be better off self contained, so as not to complicate matters.
The make more sense bit, was included to read, that trains from Westbury would run to Cheltenham allowing people a faster service than going via Bristol to Great malvern, which often gets delayed. Maybe it would be better to serve Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble on this service and run the Londons right through and not stop at these stations. Surely must be more cost effective, also Melksham does have a better service than ending at Swindon.
Well, just noticed that there is a Cheltenham to Westbury service today.
departs Gloucester at 20:14 then calls at Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble, Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, then lastly Westbury. If they can do that, like I said, could be a better service, than just terminating at Swindon.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by phile at 21:17, 12th January 2019 | |
It would make more sense if the I.E.Ts could run hourly from Cheltenham to London Paddington, and the smaller ones run hourly from Cheltenham to Westbury via Melksham
I guess it depends what you mean by "make more sense". The suggestion would mean twice as many trains on the Gloucester to Swindon line, which will obviously cost a lot more to operate. So it only makes sense if there is enough passenger demand for more trains, and either the extra income justifies it or someone is willing to pay for it. Unless that decision is made then I would have thought an hourly service on the Melksham line would be better off self contained, so as not to complicate matters.
The make more sense bit, was included to read, that trains from Westbury would run to Cheltenham allowing people a faster service than going via Bristol to Great malvern, which often gets delayed. Maybe it would be better to serve Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble on this service and run the Londons right through and not stop at these stations. Surely must be more cost effective, also Melksham does have a better service than ending at Swindon.
Well, just noticed that there is a Cheltenham to Westbury service today.
departs Gloucester at 20:14 then calls at Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble, Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, then lastly Westbury. If they can do that, like I said, could be a better service, than just terminating at Swindon.
It's run for several years now,. Mons to Fris there are two services from Cheltenham and Gloucester to Southampton
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by grahame at 21:27, 12th January 2019 | |
Well, just noticed that there is a Cheltenham to Westbury service today.
departs Gloucester at 20:14 then calls at Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble, Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, then lastly Westbury. If they can do that, like I said, could be a better service, than just terminating at Swindon.
departs Gloucester at 20:14 then calls at Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble, Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, then lastly Westbury. If they can do that, like I said, could be a better service, than just terminating at Swindon.
The Westbury <-> Swindon service comprises those services that ran prior to December 2013, plus an extra train which started shuttling up and down at that time. There is also an extra return trip on Mondays to Fridays at lunch time.
Current derivatives of the pre-2013 service on a Saturday run at 08:22 and 15:06 from Westbury, and at 15:22 and 21:06 from Swindon. Stock goes to / comes from the Swindon - Cheltenham Spa service. Only where there's no significant layover are they advertised as though services at Swindon.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by grahame at 21:38, 12th January 2019 | |
Mons to Fris there are two services from Cheltenham and Gloucester to Southampton
05:17 Gloucester and 17:40(ash) Cheltenham Spa to Southampton.
07:04 and 19:35 Westbury to Cheltenham Spa.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by Dispatch Box at 12:48, 14th January 2019 | |
Mons to Fris there are two services from Cheltenham and Gloucester to Southampton
05:17 Gloucester and 17:40(ash) Cheltenham Spa to Southampton.
07:04 and 19:35 Westbury to Cheltenham Spa.
That 17:40 is now the 17:41 and leaves Gloucester at 17:54 and reverses in plat 2 at Swindon. Some days ago this was terminated at Melksham.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by DaveHarries at 23:45, 13th June 2019 | |
Mons to Fris there are two services from Cheltenham and Gloucester to Southampton
05:17 Gloucester and 17:40(ash) Cheltenham Spa to Southampton.
07:04 and 19:35 Westbury to Cheltenham Spa.
That 17:40 is now the 17:41 and leaves Gloucester at 17:54 and reverses in plat 2 at Swindon. Some days ago this was terminated at Melksham.
I have heard that the HSTs will go hourly from December 2019 along the Kemble line and thereby eliminate nearly all of the diesel shuttles. My understanding is that the diesel stoppers in the morning and evening peaks (ie. those mentioned in the quote) will continue to run but with changes. Final details won't appear in public (ie. OpenTrainTimes / RealTimeTrains) until around September / October I would think.
HTIOI,
Dave
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by grahame at 23:57, 13th June 2019 | |
As I recall (I don't have the timetable drafts to hand - I am away tonight) you are broadly correct. The 05:17 from Gloucester becomes a through train to London, getting to Swindon (I think) in time for the Westbury train, which is now provided by the stock from a new 05:18 Westbury to Swindon service.
The two trains the have fed into the 2 hourly local train going up from Chippenham - one from Westbury and one fro Gloucester via Bristol no longer feed in that way. So that removes the through service from Keynsham and Oldfield Park to Swindon, the one train a day that's not an IET through Corsham. That and other changes mean the service from Chippenham into Swindon in the peak hour will have a gap of over 40 minutes now, rather than just over 20 minutes at present. All subject to Network Rail agreeing the proposals which are with them at present (confirmed still to be the case this evening by a GWR director who I reminded of the more local traffic ;-) )
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by grahame at 09:02, 7th November 2025 | |
There was a plan a few years ago for Virgin Cross Country to run cut down 5 coach HST's from Birmingham New Street to London Paddington via Cheltenham and Swindon and as part of this plan Swindon - Gloucester/Cheltenham services were transferred to Virgin XC but after the transfer it was discovered that there were insufficient paths into the London Terminus so the service was transferred back. I am sure there was a thread on this perhaps the moderators can post a link to that thread.
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/25595367.direct-train-route-swindon-birmingham-may-return/
A long-lost direct rail route between Swindon and Birmingham could soon be on track for a return.
The proposed service, which last ran in the early 2000s, could be reinstated through the Midlands Rail Hub project - a £1.75 billion investment aimed at improving rail connections across the Midlands, South West, and South Wales.
The proposed route would run via Stroud and Stonehouse, creating more than two million additional seats per year between Swindon and Birmingham.
The last direct service between the two towns ended more than 20 years ago, forcing passengers to change trains in Cheltenham, Gloucester, or Reading.
Swindon North MP Will Stone met with Midlands Connect and rail leaders at Swindon railway station to discuss the scheme’s potential to deliver up to 130 extra trains per week between Swindon and Birmingham.
He was joined by Councillor Chris Watts, Cabinet Member for Transport; Councillor Fay Howard, Mayor of Swindon; Tom Lydon, Head of Public Affairs at Great Western Railway and Adam King, Head of Policy and Partnerships from England's Economic Heartland.
The proposed service, which last ran in the early 2000s, could be reinstated through the Midlands Rail Hub project - a £1.75 billion investment aimed at improving rail connections across the Midlands, South West, and South Wales.
The proposed route would run via Stroud and Stonehouse, creating more than two million additional seats per year between Swindon and Birmingham.
The last direct service between the two towns ended more than 20 years ago, forcing passengers to change trains in Cheltenham, Gloucester, or Reading.
Swindon North MP Will Stone met with Midlands Connect and rail leaders at Swindon railway station to discuss the scheme’s potential to deliver up to 130 extra trains per week between Swindon and Birmingham.
He was joined by Councillor Chris Watts, Cabinet Member for Transport; Councillor Fay Howard, Mayor of Swindon; Tom Lydon, Head of Public Affairs at Great Western Railway and Adam King, Head of Policy and Partnerships from England's Economic Heartland.
It makes sense ... and the article goes on very positive. I would agree with the case for a second train in the hour from Swindon via Stroud - not new. And for a fourth train in the hour from Cheltenham Spa into Birmingham. Big senses to join them up too. There is also a case for Swindon to Oxford every hour, and for Swindon to Westbury every hour, and with all of these services to be properly resourced - enough trains and staff to run them.
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by GBM at 09:53, 7th November 2025 | |
It makes sense ... and the article goes on very positive. I would agree with the case for a second train in the hour from Swindon via Stroud - not new. And for a fourth train in the hour from Cheltenham Spa into Birmingham. Big senses to join them up too. There is also a case for Swindon to Oxford every hour, and for Swindon to Westbury every hour, and with all of these services to be properly resourced - enough trains and staff to run them.
Can't see the Treasury to agreeing to pay anything more than they do now
| Re: What happens if the alternate sprinter is up to hourly? Posted by John D at 11:22, 7th November 2025 | |
The plan back in 2002 was for XC (then Virgin) to operate alternate hours Paddington-Swindon-Cheltenham-Birmingham using shortened HSTs sets. The other hour was GWR Paddington-Swindon-Cheltenham.
It didn't happen and a shuttle with 158 units was all that happened, and that didn't last very long. XC cut routes to all sorts of destinations (as well as Paddington) subsequently
Interestingly the new proposal seems to be Midlands Rail Hub financed, so I would guess it would be a West Midlands trains service. Does that mean 196s to Swindon?
Could mean two operators on the Golden Valley going forward
