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Bus Service 205
17.6.2025 (Tuesday) 19:44 - All running AOK
 
Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by ChrisB at 17:16, 17th June 2025
 
There's a lift also from platform 1 up to the overbridge at the open end of the station too, rather than the schlep around past platform 12....

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by eightonedee at 17:11, 17th June 2025
 
If you book a through ticket to St Pancras, it's only £4 extra above the ticket for Paddington from Melksham (open return, departing after 10am, with Senior railcard, done through GWR). If you come in on platforms 7 or 8, there's ramp access to "first floor" level which gets you to gate-line access to the Hammersmith & City/Circle line, after which there are lifts to the platforms.

If you arrive at any other platform it's a longer schlep around the concourse, but you get to lifts to said "first floor level" on the concourse side of the platform 13-4 gate-line, thereafter to Hammersmith & City as above.

At St Pancras, if I recall correctly, two lifts give you step-free access from tube platform to International Departures, with helpful signs directing you to the correct lifts (I think E & F) to do so.

At Paddington, whichever route you take/have to take if you do not arrive on platforms 7 or 8, I'd guess it's quite a bit further than getting to the bus stop on Praed Street, but at St Pancras it must be much easier than getting off a bus in Euston Road.

Was this mentioned in the consultation, or TfL's response to it? More to the point, have any forum members seen this route recommended or  explained on any journeys they have taken via Paddington to St Pancras International? I only found out about the availability of "Euro High Saver returns" (Open returns valid for two months from nominated date for outward journey) from helpful Goring station staff, and worked the route out myself based on experience finding the new Hammersmith & City gate-lines after they were installed back in my working days when I had to travel up to London for meetings at venues best approached via that line.

Although I've done this route (using the tube) when travelling with my wife, who has some mobility problems not requiring any aids, I am not in a position to comment on how much worse overall it is than using a 205 bus. The fact it has not been mentioned so far in this thread implies that TfL did not mention it, nor investigate its suitability as a recommended alternative, which (if true) I find unimpressive for an integrated transport authority.

Of course, none of the above helps those seeking access between other London termini without the facilities at Paddington and St Pancras. TfL's emphasis on how much they sent communications to those resident along the route indicates an assumption that their buses are only used by locals, and that it did not occur to them that this service was also an important part of the cross-London connections for rail travellers on the national rail system. (On a route linking a number of termini stations, who'd have guessed? . Perhaps us poor yokels outside the M25 don't count.   

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by ChrisB at 16:46, 17th June 2025
 
Is an underground fare more than a bus fare?
Yes....and you can board any number of buses within an hour for one bus fare too.

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 09:33, 17th June 2025
 
Roger French has written a very good blog about the Consultation on the 205 here https://busandtrainuser.com/2025/06/07/whats-the-point-of-consulting/

That is so useful, Richard, that I quote in critical review ...

Before enacting a change of this significance TfL is obliged to go through a formal consultation process and did so between 21 October 2024 and 10 January 2025. The overwhelming response to the consultation was against the proposed cut and rerouting yet TfL are going ahead regardless. This highlights the useless nature of these formal consultation processes which end up being a tick box exercise and a very costly, bureaucratic and resource intensive exercise too.

I sat on the 205 yesterday watching people struggle to get on around Paddington, and struggle to get off in the Euston / British Library / King's Cross area and know they can look forward to struggling off and on additionally along the Marylebone Road in the future.   And I watched substantial flows leaving Eurostar arrivals with very much more in chattels, aids and dependents with them and heading for the front of the station ... for a proportion I'm sure the 205 to Paddington would have been useful should they know about it.

Is an underground fare more than a bus fare?  How much does it cost TfL for each person they carry in each way between Paddington and Kings Cross / St Pancras?   Are they looking at a raising of extra revenue from the transfer market of none-residents between the termini, and prioritising that over the convenience and care of those people?


Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by RichardB at 08:39, 17th June 2025
 
Roger French has written a very good blog about the Consultation on the 205 here https://busandtrainuser.com/2025/06/07/whats-the-point-of-consulting/

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by RichardB at 08:36, 17th June 2025
 
TfL is having it's budget held back too by the Government - it's not TfL's fault, per se

Big improvement in Spending Review.  https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/spending-review-transport-for-london-grateful-for-2-2bn-settlement-and-dlr-boost-11-06-2025/

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by ChrisB at 20:44, 16th June 2025
 
TfL is having it's budget held back too by the Government - it's not TfL's fault, per se

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 15:52, 16th June 2025
 
I just caught the 205 from Paddington - a lovely new stop above the Elizabeth Line platforms, though it does lack Real Time Information.  It was around 14:35.   Amongst the people who got on there and at the following 2 stop were
* A gent helped with a stick
* A lady with a pram and a baby in it
* Two people wearing facemarks
* Three groups with heavy luggage
* A lady with a wheelie cart an a limp
* A lady with a big pack and what looked like two guitars in cases
I asked the driver about a direct but to Kings Cross next week and he confirmed what I had understood - that there won't be one and I should take the 27 and change after Baker Street.

I sat where I could watch where people were going. Of the 8 people / groups, just two got off before the 27 and 205 routes diverge at the top of Tottenham Court Road.  So that was six through groups whom I would classify as in need of an extra help.  Not all disabilities are visible.  I note another old boy getting off at Kings' Cross and really struggling; in hindsight I'm pretty sure he joined at Paddington.

Now I was also struck by a very large flow on and off the bus of fit local traffic, much of which seemed to be for incredibly short journeys.

Probably too late to do anything that may influence the future of the service.  The first and last bus time sheet has already gone for the 205 at the Paddington stop with a poster describing the changes in as positive light as they can.

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 07:06, 16th June 2025
 
That is probably because Eurostar didn't want to respond. They would have seen the consultation

There is a very long list of "stakeholders consulted with" - over 500 of them - which I presume were actively contacted. It does not include the operators of any of the railway services relevant here, nor Network Rail (station owners and managers). (Abellio is named but that will be for buses.) ASLEF and RMT are, however in the list, as is National Grid. It's enough to start people muttering about judicial reviews!

Reading the consultation report (110 pages) some things strike me.  The very high proportion of people against the changes, and giving logical reasons. The postcode data of respondents and the mapping of them which does not go beyond a rather limited part of London (and no pointers off the map to any inputs from further afield).  The accessibility issue - as I read it TfL answers "yes, it will inconvenience those who are less mobile or nervous - but it will also inconvenience those who do not have mobility restrictions and are confident, and that makes it OK".

You don't make an omelette without breaking eggs.  Problem is, these eggs are fertile ground to build a proper integrated national and international service that's environmental and set for the future, whereas the omelette has bits of shell in it - edible for sure, but never less difficult and awkward to eat, and will put many off.

In my mind, I compare this to the breaking of connectional opportunities at Fishguard and Rosslare, rendering the route from the UK to Ireland a shadow of its former self at a time we should be encouraging international public transport.



The GWR input is notable in that it echos many of our thoughts for the passengers.  Thank you GWR. I note GWR are classified as an "other" type responder rather than being placed in a more solicited category such as "providers of connecting services".  The 205 is / was a London Rail Terminal connection bus. Why didn't TfL consult as a planned category with train operators who's customers are affected by this?

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by stuving at 20:00, 15th June 2025
 
That is probably because Eurostar didn't want to respond. They would have seen the consultation

There is a very long list of "stakeholders consulted with" - over 500 of them - which I presume were actively contacted. It does not include the operators of any of the railway services relevant here, nor Network Rail (station owners and managers). (Abellio is named but that will be for buses.) ASLEF and RMT are, however in the list, as is National Grid. It's enough to start people muttering about judicial reviews!

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by ChrisB at 19:01, 15th June 2025
 
That is probably because Eurostar didn't want to respond. They would have seen the consultation

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 18:03, 15th June 2025
 
Thanks for that - I have mirrored the full report at https://www.passenger.chat/mirror/end_205_report.pdf . I searched the document for "Eurostar" and didn't find any mention or response. 

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by stuving at 17:41, 15th June 2025
 
TfL did put out a consultation - and I thought it got a mention somewhere in these pages about a year ago? Anyway, if didn't, I did hear about it & responded negatively, so the word was got out.

Not sure I recall the consultation from the Coffee Shop (or anywhere else) but certainly the press commented about it being consulted in London (or perhaps London and the South East) which perhaps wouldn't pick up the concerns of the long distance flows.   

I wonder if GWR or Eurostar responded to TfL's consultation - whether they were invited and their opinions on this. 

Press did comment that there was substantial negative response in the consultation but it's going ahead anyway.

Full details are in the consultation report - from the consultation's page. Both GWR and Chiltern did provide inputs; GWR's was this (not verbatim):
Great Western Railway (GWR) start by saying the 205 bus service provides good opportunities for passengers arriving via rail at London Paddington Station, to make onward journeys to London Marylebone, Euston, Kings Cross, St Pancras and Liverpool Street stations via Bus (and vice versa).
They say they do not support the withdrawal of service 205. Giving multiple reasons

• GWR note London Underground / Elizabeth Line Services operate to / from Paddington to stations listed above. But highlight a selection of passengers will choose to make an interconnecting journey via bus (i.e., on the 205). There may be numerous reasons, including the interchange onto a ‘tube’ service seen as challenging due to stairs or perceived unfamiliar environment of the Underground system
• Passengers with mobility impairments, luggage, buggies, or wheelchair users may prefer to utilise the bus connection for ease. Noting the current 205 service operates door to door at street level between key London Rail Termini
• Underground stations and accessibility. A ramp to assist with boarding is still required at London Paddington and Kings Cross underground stations. Passengers with mobility impairments, luggage, buggies, or wheelchair users may prefer to utilise the bus connection for ease. Also GWR note that Euston Square Underground station is step free in the Westbound Direction only
• The also flag that HS2 construction work in the next decade, at Old Oak Common, will mean services diverted to London Euston frequently. Having multiple methods of transport available for passengers to make the interchange to /from Paddington/ Euston will reduce obstacles resulting from this engineering work
• Also noted is the role of the 205 when the London Underground / Elizabeth route is closed during service disruption and engineering work. GWR feel that if the proposal went ahead, connecting journeys between National Rail Stations would be more challenging, with multiple changes required either via bus or alternative London Underground routes (such as Bakerloo Line)
GWR conclude by repeating that retaining passenger choice of two modes of connection options (tube / bus) between London Paddington and other key London termini enables confidence and ease for the passenger. Especially in the event of service disruption to either tube or bus. They a bus connection to remain between London Paddington and various key London Termini currently served by bus 205.

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 17:19, 15th June 2025
 
TfL did put out a consultation - and I thought it got a mention somewhere in these pages about a year ago? Anyway, if didn't, I did hear about it & responded negatively, so the word was got out.

Not sure I recall the consultation from the Coffee Shop (or anywhere else) but certainly the press commented about it being consulted in London (or perhaps London and the South East) which perhaps wouldn't pick up the concerns of the long distance flows.   

I wonder if GWR or Eurostar responded to TfL's consultation - whether they were invited and their opinions on this. 

Press did comment that there was substantial negative response in the consultation but it's going ahead anyway.

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by ChrisB at 15:09, 15th June 2025
 
TfL did put out a consultation - and I thought it got a mention somewhere in these pages about a year ago? Anyway, if didn't, I did hear about it & responded negatively, so the word was got out.

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by stuving at 12:24, 15th June 2025
 
I understand the 30 is changing too and will provide a route as far as Euston from the current 205 stops too.

No - the 30 won't run west of Euston. The Paddington-Euston (and Kings Cross too) route will be covered by 27 and 205, each part-way and overlapping.


Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 08:10, 15th June 2025
 
Your best bet in probably getting an 18 from bus stop R at "Bishops Bridge Road/Little Venice" (really between the two) which goes to Euston station itself. That's pretty close to Paddington - the traipse from Euston to St Pancras is longer, though still quicker in many cases than another bus. 

Many ideas - and thanks for that one.  I understand the 30 is changing too and will provide a route as far as Euston from the current 205 stops too.

I have dropped TfL a note asking for official advice ... let's see how / if they respond.

I am a repeated but not frequent use of bus service 205 from Paddington to St Pancras, interchanging from main line trains from Wiltshire where I live to onward services via Eurostar and also to places like Cambridge. I am also a passenger advocate advising others how best to travel and a number of us have mobility and sensory issues that mean we need to minimise interchanges, distance moved and level changes, even if lifts are provided.

I am disappointed to read that the through bus will no longer run from Paddington to Kings Cross as from a weeks time.  We heard this news late in the day as I understand that consultations have been with London residents - which we are not - we are visitors who together help make your city work and help you justify the public transport which is usually very good.

1. What consultation was done and reach put out to groups like ours who use London's services but don't live there?

2. Is there an alternative I have missed of direct surface provision that works without an extra interchange for those who find the underground difficult?

You say "no personal information" BUT you are very welcome to share my details and get back in touch as appropriate - indeed I encourage you to do so to help make systems / alternatives better and well known - Graham

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by John D at 20:32, 14th June 2025
 
Appears 205 is being diverted from Baker Street to go to Marble Arch, as a replacement for 30 (withdrawn Euston-Marble Arch).

Clearly TfL money saving idea

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by stuving at 20:13, 14th June 2025
 
Your best bet in probably getting an 18 from bus stop R at "Bishops Bridge Road/Little Venice" (really between the two) which goes to Euston station itself. That's pretty close to Paddington - the traipse from Euston to St Pancras is longer, though still quicker in many cases than another bus. 

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 19:13, 14th June 2025
 
27 to any stop between Baker Street & Warren Street & change at same stop for the 205

Indeed, Chris.  Another change, another 10 minutes, another messing about with luggage and any mobilty aids, another change for people unfamiliar with the transfer to get confused/lost and an opportunity to get cold and perhaps wet.

Oh - and another chance to take a "where is this" quiz picture.

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by ChrisB at 18:45, 14th June 2025
 
27 to any stop between Baker Street & Warren Street & change at same stop for the 205

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 17:11, 14th June 2025
 


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-bus-route-cuts-tfl-30-205-euston-paddington-marble-arch-b1229839.html

More to follow on this ... but I am in conference today

Follow up posted to the International Group I'm in ... hence the bias here:



As from 21st June 2025, Paddington Station will NO LONGER be served by bus route 205 to Euston, St Pancras International, Kings Cross and Liverpool Street.   This bus route has been my personal recommendation for passengers arriving in London from the West Country, Bristol, South Wales and the Cotswolds carrying on to Eurostar services to France, Belgium and The Netherlands.

There is no suggested bus alternative. Bus route 46 does run from Paddington to St Pancras, but takes you a very long route through North London and takes nearly an hour for the journey. The London Underground Circle line, and Hammersmith and Ciry lines, both run from Paddington (Platform 16) taking between 12 and 15 minutes to Kings Cross St Pancras.  None of these direct journeys are included on the Interrail / Eurail pass.

You can use your Interrrail / Eurail Pass from Paddington (platform A - entrance from near platform 1) to Farringdon on the Elizabeth line, and change there onto a northbound Thameslink train from platform 4 to St Pancras.

The 205 was a very useful way for those with heavy luggage and in wheelchairs / with limited mobilty to get from trains from the West of London to International services from St Pancras and services for North East of London.
 
An article in The Standard alerted me to news of the change and told of consultations with local residents.  It acknoeldged that the change is an unpopular one, but told us that the change has been made for cost and efficiency reasons, promising a better service on the remains of the route which - however - does not serve Paddington. No mention is made in the article of consultation with long distance / limited mobility customers for whom this was the best cross-London option

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 13:27, 14th June 2025
 
Ouch

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-bus-route-cuts-tfl-30-205-euston-paddington-marble-arch-b1229839.html

More to follow on this ... but I am in conference today

Re: Bus Service 205
Posted by grahame at 12:43, 14th June 2025
 
Ouch

Bus Service 205
Posted by rogerw at 12:30, 14th June 2025
 
As an occasional user of this service I was disappointed to learn that Paddington will no longer be served from 21 June, with buses being diverted from Baker Street to Marble Arch, replacing service 30. the 205 was a useful link from Paddington to Euston, St Pancras, Kings Cross and Liverpool Street stations, those journeys now requiring a change en-route. The only mainline terminal station served by a direct bus from Paddington is Victoria

 
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