| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by UstiImmigrunt at 15:11, 17th March 2025 |     |
There's nothing wrong in avoiding Barf. Shame there isn't a Bath avoider for the railway. Never liked the place especially those who can't count when it comes to bikes in the HST TGS.
Given that Bath's in the top ten and possibly the top five in terms of revenue generating stations for GWR that's a little ungenerous.
Thinking of the maximum number of bikes I've seen in an HST bike space, yes, that Sunday evening when at least 15 teenagers off the Bristol to Bath path happily piled a collection of wheeled things aboard for the trip home was memorable, and even if there were far too many of them they were helping to pay the railway's wage bill (and everything went aboard because the space was somewhat flexible and everyone including staff were in a good mood, confident, and generally less under the cosh). Of course the DfT has now sorted this out with cycle accommodation on the IEPs that's not particularly useable at all.
Mark
15 bikes, so you are happy for your exit to be blocked in an emergency then? I was infamous in Wessex days for enforcing the 1600 to 1800 no bikes rule.
Yes, I agree it's a disgrace regarding bike storage on IETs being abysmal but that was chosen by the "experts" at DaFT.
Dear Passenger,
When you get home do you close your front door and then block it with luggage /pram/bike?
No?
So why do you block a door as soon as you board a train?
One of the dispatchers at Barf was abused so much by cyclists he had to be supported in the 6 bike rule, if not then probably 10 plus in the van, again blocking the emergency exit.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Mark A at 10:59, 17th March 2025 | |
I think, with hindsight, and a fairly straight face, it is not unreasonable to say that if the money wasted on what was done at Bath had been (better ?) used to bypass Melksham and Westbury then the M4 to Warminster bit of this "strategic" route would now have a reasonable road. Only the A36 to, and round, Salisbury left to do 
A photo of Batheaston/Swainswick bypass's river spans from beneath to follow.
Some years previous to the bypass being built, the bus service up the Swainswick Valley (number 210, hourly to the village) ceased as the buses could no longer maintain the timetable given the standing traffic on the A46. When the bypass opened, there were hopes that it would be reinstated, but nooooh.
And yes, a more economical bypass would have been good and enabled improvements elsewhere on the route. Including for people on foot. Thinking now of the feed into Melksham's bypass-that-isn't, which has murderous tendencies if you're on foot and don't know the road. One of the bus stops near the station is a good hike from... the station, and if you then innocently trot along the pavement in the direction of said station, the urban pavement, without any notice that it's going to do so, thins out slowly to nothing, and on a blind bend for good measure. Google streetview here: https://tinyurl.com/mwuw2nsb
Mark
https://i.postimg.cc/CxkWG8kC/A4-Batheaston-bypass-bridges.jpg
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by grahame at 10:30, 17th March 2025 | |
There's nothing wrong in avoiding Barf. Shame there isn't a Bath avoider for the railway. Never liked the place especially those who can't count when it comes to bikes in the HST TGS.
Given that Bath's in the top ten and possibly the top five in terms of revenue generating stations for GWR that's a little ungenerous.
I am seeing what I'm pretty sure is some good-natured bantering there, but it does remind me that the railways showed startling levels of reliability when there were hardly any passengers travelling during covid - but I then remind myself that there was hardly any income to the railways either and in the continuum there is a need for income, even if it requires the harding of a wide range of passengers.
* Those with heavy luggage.
* Those bringing a bicycle with them
* Those who need customer information
* Those who require boarding assistance
* Those who'll want help buying a ticket
* Those who can't read and understand signs and notices in English or Welsh
* Those who wish to have a guaranteed seat
* Those who are otherwise limited for health or other reasons
Would you restrict the use of the railway to people without certain needs? Make additional charge for some of those items?
Declaration of interest - I ALWAYS fall into one of these categories, and for certain journeys have fallen into most of the other too.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by grahame at 10:07, 17th March 2025 | |
I think, with hindsight, and a fairly straight face, it is not unreasonable to say that if the money wasted on what was done at Bath had been (better ?) used to bypass Melksham and Westbury then the M4 to Warminster bit of this "strategic" route would now have a reasonable road. Only the A36 to, and round, Salisbury left to do
Certainly the A46 coming down off the M4 through Pennsylvania now dumps the traffic between Batheaston and Bathford ... with onward routes south for smaller vehicles through Bradford-on-Avon who love all the traffic they get - not sure how much is long distance stuff. Other traffic carries on via Box - eastwards rather than south, and if it's headed south joins the A350 at Chippenham or Melksham. I would not describe the Batheaston bypass as "wasted" investment, but I would agree that it misses an element that would have made it much more valuable.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Clan Line at 09:39, 17th March 2025 | |
I think, with hindsight, and a fairly straight face, it is not unreasonable to say that if the money wasted on what was done at Bath had been (better ?) used to bypass Melksham and Westbury then the M4 to Warminster bit of this "strategic" route would now have a reasonable road. Only the A36 to, and round, Salisbury left to do
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Mark A at 09:30, 17th March 2025 | |
There's nothing wrong in avoiding Barf. Shame there isn't a Bath avoider for the railway. Never liked the place especially those who can't count when it comes to bikes in the HST TGS.
Given that Bath's in the top ten and possibly the top five in terms of revenue generating stations for GWR that's a little ungenerous.
Thinking of the maximum number of bikes I've seen in an HST bike space, yes, that Sunday evening when at least 15 teenagers off the Bristol to Bath path happily piled a collection of wheeled things aboard for the trip home was memorable, and even if there were far too many of them they were helping to pay the railway's wage bill (and everything went aboard because the space was somewhat flexible and everyone including staff were in a good mood, confident, and generally less under the cosh). Of course the DfT has now sorted this out with cycle accommodation on the IEPs that's not particularly useable at all.
Mark
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Mark A at 09:16, 17th March 2025 | |
Here is an interesting 1990 photo of the Batheastern & Swainswick bypass (looking towards Bath). Those parts got built, by the link to A36 in left foreground was dropped due to local opposition
https://bathintime.co.uk/image-library/image-overview/poster/20931/posterid/20931.html
https://bathintime.co.uk/image-library/image-overview/poster/20931/posterid/20931.html
At the inquiry the potential of the new road to generate noise pollution was recognised, with various mitigations. Concerning the A36/46 link component, this was identified as a problem, as vehicles would come to a stand for its junction and then need to accelerate again for some distance, and uphill for good measure. Short of putting the whole thing underground, there wasn't a way to mitigate this, and also there was the issue that it then dumped the problem on the er, suboptimal A36 route through the Limpley Stoke Valley.
Another aspect of this road is the 50mph speed restriction throughout, but particularly on the flat bit past Batheaston. People who aren't keen on speed restrictions tend to rail against this thinking its for safety reasons, but again, it's an environmental restriction - vehicles are far noisier at 70mph than they are at 50mph.
Mark
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Clan Line at 21:26, 16th March 2025 | |
Here is an interesting 1990 photo of the Batheastern & Swainswick bypass (looking towards Bath). Those parts got built, by the link to A36 in left foreground was dropped due to local opposition
https://bathintime.co.uk/image-library/image-overview/poster/20931/posterid/20931.html
https://bathintime.co.uk/image-library/image-overview/poster/20931/posterid/20931.html
35 years ago - and all they have managed to do since then is close the Cleveland Bridge to anything over 18 tonnes.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by John D at 19:09, 16th March 2025 | |
Here is an interesting 1990 photo of the Batheastern & Swainswick bypass (looking towards Bath). Those parts got built, by the link to A36 in left foreground was dropped due to local opposition
https://bathintime.co.uk/image-library/image-overview/poster/20931/posterid/20931.html
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Mark A at 12:14, 16th March 2025 | |
Yes that is their problem, the strategic route they had before doesn't work any more so they need a new one. When they planned it I think they assumed they could build the now aborted Swainswick - Batheaston bypass to avoid Bath.
You are spot on there ! When the "proper" A46/A36 link was cancelled, that really made the remaining work that was carried out on the A46/A4 a complete waste of time and money and achieved absolutely zilch.
The A36 via the Limpley Stoke valley is... marginal... and a connection to it from the Batheaston bypass would be grim. A 'Proper' A46/A36 link would involve a dual carriageway connection from the east end of the current bypass via an 'A20-at-Folkestone' style tunnel to take it out of the valley and then to rejoin the existing road at Beckington. Awkward as the UK has been reluctant to undertake that sort of engineering task.
Mark
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by UstiImmigrunt at 11:50, 16th March 2025 | |
There's nothing wrong in avoiding Barf. Shame there isn't a Bath avoider for the railway. Never liked the place especially those who can't count when it comes to bikes in the HST TGS.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by grahame at 09:57, 16th March 2025 | |
Yes that is their problem, the strategic route they had before doesn't work any more so they need a new one. When they planned it I think they assumed they could build the now aborted Swainswick - Batheaston bypass to avoid Bath.
Others have posted while I was writing this - I have decided still to post as it backs them up and has a few extras
Indeed - you have the very curious Batheaston bypass (connecting the A4 East - West and the A46 headed north) crossing the River Avon twice that at one point on the same side of the Avon as the road headed south (A36) and only about a quarter of a mile from it.
The way around it shown on this map is via the Clevedon Bridge which - however - is a revered piece of history and accessed along roads like the London Road and Bathwick Street which are unsuitable for HGVs, or for an easy increase in vehicle numbers. Other ways are the toll bridge at Bathmapton (and I'm sure there are weight limits there) and through the old town and across the old bridge at Bradford-on-Avon with problems with air quality, congestion, vibration and so on, and which has a weight limit which is very visibly applied.
There is no blindingly obvious route north to the M4 from Warminster. There is a strong case for a road (the new A350) that allows traffic to bypass Westbury, from the A36 where it crosses the main railway to the West Country, parallel to the railway to the Industrial area north of Westbury station. That industrial area is altready linked to the M4 via the A350 though there are pinch points at Yarnbrook and in Melksham north of the Farmer's runabout that already - err - need attention.
We shouldn't be looking at the strategic route in isolation either. Resident population growth is set to be and mandate to continue to be explosive, but the commercial / economic hub for that growth is the Bath and Bristol area, and good mass transit links are needed - beyond what we have at the moment, as the private car infrastructure already creaks at the seams.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Mark A at 09:53, 16th March 2025 | |
Should route everything via M4 and the A34...
Musings from the top deck of a Swindon-Cirencester bus a week ago, and the sight (again) of the earthworks of the rail route between Cheltenham and Southampton cutting across the road, the old canal and fields at Siddington. It's a sight that's always evocative: the two rail routes playing a comparatively minor part in the railway age, and long out of use, but at least in part now paralleled by major roads constructed very much as 'Motorways by stealth'.
Roads are by their nature far better able to evolve piecemeal and as well as enjoying benefits we all pay the price.
Mark
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Clan Line at 09:38, 16th March 2025 | |
Yes that is their problem, the strategic route they had before doesn't work any more so they need a new one. When they planned it I think they assumed they could build the now aborted Swainswick - Batheaston bypass to avoid Bath.
You are spot on there ! When the "proper" A46/A36 link was cancelled, that really made the remaining work that was carried out on the A46/A4 a complete waste of time and money and achieved absolutely zilch.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by ellendune at 08:56, 16th March 2025 | |
The objective is to avoid Bath.
Bath is already "avoided" ! The closure of the Cleveland Bridge has already stopped heavy traffic from the A46 getting onto the A36 - as it used to do. This has moved traffic from the A46 to the A350. Bath has dumped its HGV problem onto West Wiltshire
Yes that is their problem, the strategic route they had before doesn't work any more so they need a new one. When they planned it I think they assumed they could build the now aborted Swainswick - Batheaston bypass to avoid Bath.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by ellendune at 08:49, 16th March 2025 | |
Warminster to Dorset strategic route remains via the A36 to M27 junction 2, then westward via the A31. I saw a discussion on the SABRE roads forum…
Paul
Paul
Just because someone has decided to call a route "strategic" doesn't mean it is capable of handling the required traffic volumes. If only ...............
Totally agree. All they are going to do as I understand it, is change the sign posts. Though if they ever have money to spend on improvements it will be part of the justification.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Clan Line at 18:54, 15th March 2025 | |
Warminster to Dorset strategic route remains via the A36 to M27 junction 2, then westward via the A31. I saw a discussion on the SABRE roads forum…
Paul
Paul
Just because someone has decided to call a route "strategic" doesn't mean it is capable of handling the required traffic volumes. If only ...............
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Clan Line at 18:50, 15th March 2025 | |
The objective is to avoid Bath.
Bath is already "avoided" ! The closure of the Cleveland Bridge has already stopped heavy traffic from the A46 getting onto the A36 - as it used to do. This has moved traffic from the A46 to the A350. Bath has dumped its HGV problem onto West Wiltshire
The proposed route is the A350 as far as Warminster then the A36
You are just repeating what this useless Study is saying. The A350 and the A36 are barely capable of handling the existing traffic at the moment. To get it to the required capacity will take £ Billions and 25+ years !
It is not ideal I agree, but the existing route is the A46 from the M4 to Bath then the A36 from there. So there is no change in route from Warminster to the Dorset Coast.
The "existing route" is not A46 to A36 even now, except in the simplistic minds of the "Study" who just seem to look at Google Maps. - unless the traffic goes over Bathampton Toll Bridge ! The proposed A350/A36 route is not "ideal" - it has just not been thought out. Even worse I don't think anyone has ever driven down that route.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by paul7575 at 18:45, 15th March 2025 | |
Warminster to Dorset strategic route remains via the A36 to M27 junction 2, then westward via the A31. I saw a discussion on the SABRE roads forum…
Paul
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by ellendune at 16:23, 15th March 2025 | |
The objective is to avoid Bath.
The proposed route is the A350 as far as Warminster then the A36
It is not ideal I agree, but the existing route is the A46 from the M4 to Bath then the A36 from there. So there is no change in route from Warminster to the Dorset Coast.
Perhaps they should route it by Rail instead.
| Re: Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Clan Line at 12:40, 15th March 2025 | |
I read this yesterday online and have to assume that whoever wrote this “Study” lives in Outer Mongolia and has never set foot in England, let alone Wiltshire !
It purports to talk about “M4 to the Dorset coast” route. It proposes sending the traffic through Melksham & Westbury to Warminster. Traffic “through” Melksham (no real bypass) is bad, Westbury is a nightmare already. Oh......... and Yarnbrook roundabout and West Ashton lights !
OK, let’s accept this fairy tale to that point. Where does the traffic go from Warminster ? The A350 to Shaftesbury is reasonable – apart from the very steep hill into Shaftesbury itself – then no bypass. The A350 to Blandford must be one of the worst roads in the UK. They are already routing HGVs through Melbury Abbas and Spread Eagle Hill.
The other option is to send the traffic down the A36 from Warminster to Salisbury, thence to the “Dorset Coast” Another lunatic option ! Has anyone ever driven along the Inner Ring Road & Southampton Rd in Salisbury ??
What makes this “Study” even more infuriating and out of touch is that two of the really bad pinch points on these routes have been well on the route to getting “proper” by-passes in the past. The Salisbury by-pass was ditched by John Prescott in 97/98. The Westbury by-pass was funded, until the “nimby” lobby struck and the money went elsewhere , I believe it was used to (RE !!) double up the rail route through Stroud.
This is yet another absolute classic of the inept/incompetent so-called transport planning we suffer from. Add this to HS2 and the Stonehenge bypass fiascos.
| Plan for M4 to south coast corridor to avoid Bath, through West Wiltshire Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 20:11, 14th March 2025 | |
From the BBC:
Lorries and other traffic heading to the south coast from the M4 should be routed through Wiltshire instead of Bath, according to a government study.
Currently, the designated route from the M4 to the Dorset coast is via the A46 and A36, funnelling it across Cleveland Bridge and through Bath. But a National Highways' study has recommended making the A350 in Wiltshire the designated route instead.
Bath and North East Somerset Council (BANES) said it would make a "hugely positive impact" to traffic in the city. Wiltshire Council said it would need to secure investment but the finding was "a vital first positive step" towards improvements.
To avoid Bath, the agency's M4 to Dorset Coast Study recommends traffic should follow the A350 via Chippenham, Melksham and Westbury and then join the A36 at Warminster. HGVs already have to find alternative routes due to an 18-tonne weight limit on Cleveland Bridge in Bath, introduced in 2021.
Manda Rigby, BANES cabinet member for transport, said the authority was "delighted at this outcome". "No longer will Bath be seen as the preferred route for HGVs between the M4 and the south coast," she said. "This will have a hugely positive impact on traffic flows long term in Bath and north east Somerset and air quality enhancements."
Parvis Khansari, from Wiltshire Council, said it will mean highway improvements could be made at "several key points in the county" including Melksham, Westbury, Warminster and Salisbury. "This corridor is not only essential for regional travel, but these strategic roads also provide vital links between many of our towns and villages here in Wiltshire and so improving them will benefit us all," he said. "There is a long way to go before we can secure this investment and make these improvements a reality, but this is a vital first positive step in the right direction."
