In the course of my browsing the Coffee Shop forum (as I tend to do, as an administrator Image not available to guests ) I found that we had three topics, on different boards, relating specifically to defibrillators.

I have therefore moved and merged them all here - as ever, in the interests of consistency and ease of future reference.

Hope this helps, CfN. Image not available to guests

 

With modern rolling stock the train maintenance teams know exactly where every coach is at any time, all rolling stock is tracked using GPS, can feed back live data or the data is downloaded as it enters a depot.  Maintenance records will hold serial numbers of all key components when last inspected, due for replacement .............. so an AED not a problem. 

Not forgetting the good old fashioned planned preventative maintenance using visual inspection

 
I'd like to think depots have an idea what kit is on the trains they service. I'd also like to think they have a service schedule.

If AEDs are to be fitted to trains I'm sure they won't just be put onboard and forgotten about.

 
But can't tell whether there's/there'll be a defib on board, nor what serial number it is & whether it needs a battery change.

 

Surely depots have systems that tell them what's going to turn up that night

 

Their search map is unreachable. Try this

 
Indeed they do - but no way of tracking where or which depot that train is at at the point of requiring service.

So do you give the job of tracking the defibs to some depot manager who passes on the defib info if/when that train gets seconded or transferred, possibly across country. Not only do you need to advise the company providing battery support, but the 999 operator.

Not exactly straight forward

 

Many large businesses have AEDs on subscription, with all costs, including battery replacement, servicing after use and annual safety check included. Battery life can be up to five years.

Those registered on 'The Circuit' can send you reminders for servicing etc.

 

Yes, they are a life saver, and should be carried on all passenger trains

The entire fleet of Network Rail maintenance road fleet carry AED's as standard.  Even my little station on a branch line has an AED

If you want where your nearest AED is https://www.aeddonate.org.uk/

 
As long as someone on the train knows where the defib is kept, and has an idea of the basics of how to use one, then there is no need to use the unlock-code system that the ambulance services use

We have one located in our factory and the first-aider staff have had some training.  Essentially, as long as you know where to place the pads, the machine does the rest for you.  Very clever in detecting the heart rhythm and whether it is shockable or not, and applying one if necessary

The chances of surviving an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest are slim, even with rapid application of CPR.  A difib can increase those chances a little.

So, yes, a good idea

 
Hmm. Yes & No.

The battery within them will require changing every so often.

The ones that have a fixed location are linked back to the 999 operator such that quoting the code attached tells the operator where to send the emergency services. How does that work on a moveable object? "Hello user, can you tell us where you are?" "Hello operator, no idea, in the dark somewhere between York & Leeds"

 
https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/24946833.transpennine-express-installing-defibrillators-51-trains/


Good idea??

 
Defibrillators are devices that restore a normal heartbeat by sending an electric pulse or shock to the heart. They are used to prevent or correct an arrhythmia, a heartbeat that is uneven or that is too slow or too fast. Defibrillators can also restore the heart’s beating if the heart suddenly stops.

Public Access Defibrillators are "popping up all over the country" according to https://www.resus.org.uk/public-resource/defibrillation and I certainly know of the ones nearest to where I live, and the one just installed at the Melksham Hub, opposite the railway station.


On 10th January 2017, Network Rail published an information package - see https://safety.networkrail.co.uk/healthandwellbeing/supporting-wellbeing-at-work/defibrillators-manager-support/ - offering guidance to managers and useful to - well - just about anyone who may be around anywhere, to help encourage knowledge of where these devices are and what to do in an emergncy.

From 16th October 2021 in the Argus

Is there a GWR defibrillator map? see http://www.passenger.chat/17500 which could really do with an update!

 
There’s a very new-looking AED cabinet at Twyford on the external wall of Platform 4 in the station forecourt.

 

There is a AED (Automated External Defibrillator) storage in every 80x in the middle car.  It looks the same as a fire extinguisher storage housing.  immediately behind the SST (Space Saver Toilet in a 5 car and behind the bike storage in a 9 car under the first seat).

The containers are empty.....

 
This thread is now nearly three years old.   Can anyone provide updates on where defibrillators are at GWR (and other) stations and where they are not there, whether there's a database of ones nearby, or how to set about getting them sanctioned, funded and installed.

 
As long as 1 life is saved, most would argue that the £2,500 for the unit is well-spent.

It's all those with a zero usage or life saved that is open to question which is why I expressed interest in the stats.

 
Less than half probably, but even so, a life saved is a saved life. Or several lives actually, once you take into account the other people affected. I was responding, vaguely, to ChrisB who wondered how effective they were upthread. However, better than nothing doesn't necessarily mean they're the best thing to do with £x to save lives – though it's possible they still might be that too, it would depend what the options were.

 

Since defibrillation and CPR are the only available treatments I suppose you could look at it the other way.  Defibrillators can save half of people who have cardiac arrest.  Sounds like a good reason to have them to me. 

 

Bmblbzzz is correct. The survival rates from either CPR or defibrillator use are surprisingly low - something like a third of patients requiring CPR or a defibrillator survive in a hospital, let alone in the great outdoors, as I recall from a first aid course some years ago, the instructor being a retired nurse. It's not at all like Casualty where someone receives a couple of shocks and suddenly splutters back to life.

 

Are you sure you are not talking about CPR?  Which is skilled.  The defibrillators found at stations and other places are automatic.

 
I've read, but I can't remember where, that even when used by trained staff in a hospital they're not very effective – certainly less than 50%. Their main purpose in public places has been described as to make members of the public feel they're doing something useful and so stop them feeling guilty later, and also to keep them busy and so not doing anything that might make things worse until the ambulance turns up.

 

At the risk of lowering the serious tone of this... all I can say is  'shocking'!  Image not available to guests

 

Incredibly, one from inside the office I work in went missing a couple of years ago...

 
There were quite a number of the put up across the National network.   In a number of locations, even at London major stations, they got vandalised and even stolen

 

I'm building up a picture for the TransWilts (via a Facebook post) and I'm learning too.  Seems there might be public ones and trained-staff-only ones but I'm not informed enough to write with much certainty.

 
I think I've them at Oxford & Reading. But I *think* unusable by public as access codes only known by staff. Those in public places are accessible by ringing a number for the access codes.

Bear in mind they're only really effective within the first few minutes of a cardiac arrest...so better than nothing but I'll be interested iin the annual stats of success/usage.

 
I've seen them in various locations across the rail network.

 
From Rail Techology Magazine - an article that's six months old, but starts to address a question I was asked last night and didn't know the answer to.   Let me quote selectively:


Within my home town, installation of a network across the town has recently been completed:


Are there defibrillators installed on GWR trains or at stations? If so, is there any pattern in their availability?  Perhaps I've not been very observant, but I've not noticed either the machines or instructions on where to find them and how to access them ...