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Great Western Coffee Shop
Recent Public Posts - [guest]
Re: On this day - 9th December 2005 - last Routemaster in regular service
In "Heritage railways, Railtours, buses, canals, steamships and other public transport based attractions" [369190/28241/47]
Posted by grahame at 11:57, 9th December 2025
 
20 years ago today ... from ((here)) under a Creative Commons License


Re: Railways Bill 2025: introducing and designing Great British Railways - general topic
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [369189/31038/40]
Posted by lympstone_commuter at 11:54, 9th December 2025
 
Hmmm - in my view, this simply illustrates how excellent the (current) GWR branding is.

Re: Railways Bill 2025: introducing and designing Great British Railways - general topic
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [369188/31038/40]
Posted by grahame at 11:38, 9th December 2025
Already liked by lympstone_commuter
 
However, the Department for Transport said the “striking and memorable design” was developed in-house, to maximise value for money.

Just... yikes.

I recently commissioned an excellent designer to redesign parts of cycle.travel because I recognise that design is absolutely not my strength. That's for one little website/app, not for an entire nationalised railway.

Redesigning GBR in-house, with a team of people who have presumably never designed a train livery before, is reminiscent of the disaster when Marissa Mayer redesigned the Yahoo logo.

What we are talking about ... as on the gov.uk site:


Questions raised are such as
* How clean will it be kept?
* Does the logo turn around for running the other way?
* How will yellow and red striped for first class and catering fit with this?
* How will it look when multiple units are coupled and perhaps one is turned around?

Re: Cars getting bigger - is this a concern?
In "Buses and other ways to travel" [369187/31190/5]
Posted by CyclingSid at 11:27, 9th December 2025
 
Reducing the harms from ever larger cars - evidence
https://www.bmj.com/content/391/bmj.r2162.full

Re: North Cotswold line delays and cancellations - 2025
In "London to the Cotswolds" [369186/29711/14]
Posted by Worcester_Passenger at 11:22, 9th December 2025
 
Tuesday December 9
 
1P02 05:23 Hereford to London Paddington : started from Shrub Hill (RTT : "due to an issue with the train crew (TH)").
2E80 07:00 Worcester Shrub Hill to Didcot Parkway : held Moreton (+12) and Charlbury (+23), arrived Oxford +28 and cancelled thereafter.
1P18 07:13 Great Malvern to Paddington (09:42) : held Charlbury (+40), arrived Reading +35 and cancelled thereafter (RTT : "due to unknown cause (ZW)")

09:56 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 12:23 will be started from Worcester Shrub Hill.
This is due to earlier engineering works not being finished on time.
Last Updated:09/12/2025 08:37

1W13 0652 London Paddington to Great Malvern (09:29) : departed +14, Oxford +24, arrived Shrub Hill and cancelled thereafter (RTT : "due to overrunning engineering works (I5)").


Re: AQ9 - What has changed?
In "The Lighter Side" [369185/31229/30]
Posted by PrestburyRoad at 11:19, 9th December 2025
 
Mark Lane has become Tower Hill.

Followers of Jago Hazzard's YouTube channel may have seen his video on this particular change, and he has also covered many other aspects of the evolution of the Underground.  A running theme is a certain moustachioed American who is often mentioned, one Charles Tyson Yerkes - and now that I've mentioned his name I need a drink (cheers!)

Re: Railways Bill 2025: introducing and designing Great British Railways - general topic
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [369184/31038/40]
Posted by Richard Fairhurst at 11:17, 9th December 2025
 
However, the Department for Transport said the “striking and memorable design” was developed in-house, to maximise value for money.

Just... yikes.

I recently commissioned an excellent designer to redesign parts of cycle.travel because I recognise that design is absolutely not my strength. That's for one little website/app, not for an entire nationalised railway.

Redesigning GBR in-house, with a team of people who have presumably never designed a train livery before, is reminiscent of the disaster when Marissa Mayer redesigned the Yahoo logo.

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2025
In "TransWilts line" [369183/29726/18]
Posted by matth1j at 11:08, 9th December 2025
 
This morning looks interesting. There are three services into one - with Castle Cary to Taunton closed for engineering, with Swindon to Parkway closed for flooding, three major main lines are all being funnelled through Chippenham and Bath. If the 17:35 off Chippenham is held back / misses its path, it may be a bit of a wait for the next path
Tuesdays and Fridays are my days off (AKA working from home) fortunately It does look pretty grim outside at the moment, a good day to not be commuting.

Re: Railways Bill 2025: introducing and designing Great British Railways - general topic
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [369182/31038/40]
Posted by Mark A at 11:03, 9th December 2025
 
Is it a bit dazzle camoflagy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage

How will this sit with signing that's carried by train exteriors? Thinking of stripes on carriages that denote 1st/standard class, wheelchair space, cycle space etc.

Also, the choice of white for the doors will put the spotlight on the effectiveness of the systems used to clean train exteriors.

Mark


Re: Railways Bill 2025: introducing and designing Great British Railways - general topic
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [369181/31038/40]
Posted by matth1j at 10:57, 9th December 2025
 
And now -the new livery-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

..which looks like it has been designed so as to avoid Reform complaining about politically correct designs being foisted on England's travelling public.

Paint job on renationalised trains ‘a mad dog’s breakfast’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/bfc89bd6d8360dc6

Renationalised trains will be given a Union flag-inspired red, white and blue livery, the Government has announced.

State-owned company Great British Railways (GBR) is to unveil its branding on Tuesday, before it is rolled out to trains, websites and stations from next spring.

Stephen Bayley, founder of the Design Museum, criticised the new colour scheme.

Mr Bayley said: “It’s atrocious. A mad dog’s breakfast. A livery is branding and branding is all about associations and expectations.

“In this sense, they’ve got it right. It projects the values of the sponsoring organisation: artless, careless, clumsy, unintelligent and uncoordinated.”

Referring to Japan’s bullet trains, he continued: “Have they never seen a Japanese Shinkansen? That’s what a train should look like.

“We have some of the best designers in the world in this country. A pity they were not hired by Great British Railways.”

However, the Department for Transport said the “striking and memorable design” was developed in-house, to maximise value for money.

The new livery will mark a stark change from the “Rail Blue” colour scheme that defined publicly owned British Rail’s trains from the mid-1960s to the 1980s.

Christian Wolmar, a rail historian and author, said he found the new GBR livery “impressive”, saying: “I think it conveys an impression of speed. It’s elegant. It combines Union Jack colours, and I think it’s very important to have an identity.

“The design is bloody fabulous. I just wonder if it’s a bit too modern, whether they could have reflected at all on the past, but I have to commend it.”

The seven major train operators that have already nationalised have kept the branding of their previous operators.

The Government has said that existing train companies will rebrand as Great British Railways, a process that has now been brought forward to next year from the expected date of 2027.

Heidi Alexander, the Transport Secretary, said: “I’m immensely proud to unveil the new look for Great British Railways as we deliver landmark legislation to nationalise our trains and reform the railway so it better serves passengers.

“This isn’t just a paint job, it represents a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers.

“With fares frozen, a bold new look and fundamental reforms becoming law, we are building a railway Britain can rely on and be proud of.”

Re: AQ9 - What has changed?
In "The Lighter Side" [369180/31229/30]
Posted by stuving at 09:43, 9th December 2025
Already liked by Witham Bobby
 
The Circle Line

Which was a "circle" of sorts, until it got cut through at Edgware Road

Not just the circle - the old Metropolitan and District Lines were split three ways, with the new Met and District lines sharing with the Circle, and with each other eastwards to Barking. Then later the Hammersmith & City was marked as a line in its own right, and the ELL taken away to be linked with the wider Overground.

Re: AQ9 - What has changed?
In "The Lighter Side" [369179/31229/30]
Posted by Oxonhutch at 09:35, 9th December 2025
 
The East London Line and Northern City Line now part of the Overground. St Mary's Curve and Shoreditch gone.

No more Middle Circle.

Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway - ongoing discussion
In "Across the West" [369178/18719/26]
Posted by bradshaw at 09:31, 9th December 2025
 
Last Saturday seven services were cancelled on the Weymouth line, along with two on Sunday. As with other lines crewing is becoming a problem.

I understand from previous posts that Westbury provide most of the train crew for the line.

With the upcoming move to GBR is is not time to expand the train crew depot at Yeovil Junction and use the additional complement to staff the Weymouth to Westbury line. The units could be stabled at the Junction. This would cut out the early morning ecs to Yeovil from Westbury but would need an ecs working, or a passenger service, to Weymouth to run the first up train from there.

Re: IET wi-fi upgrade - pilot scheme on W of E trains
In "Across the West" [369177/31108/26]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 09:26, 9th December 2025
Already liked by matth1j
 
I've merged a couple of topics here, as they relate to the same scheme.

CfN.

Re: Railways Bill 2025: introducing and designing Great British Railways - general topic
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [369176/31038/40]
Posted by eightonedee at 09:21, 9th December 2025
Already liked by lympstone_commuter
 
And now -the new livery-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

..which looks like it has been designed so as to avoid Reform complaining about politically correct designs being foisted on England's travelling public.

Interesting to see if any local or regional variations are allowed/introduced (on the basis that the TfW and Scottish ones are "national" and will not change). From recent overseas trips, regional liveries seem to be a growing trend in Europe.

Re: SWR improvements under GBR
In "South Western services" [369175/31227/42]
Posted by bradshaw at 09:18, 9th December 2025
 
I would agree about Tisbury and Templecombe. However, when the Cl159s were introduced the up platform at Crewkerne was raised to make access easier. It was also extended outwards to ease the limited width under the road bridge.
The result is that there is no longer a track bed width that would support double track without taking a chunk out of the old down platform. While possible the land behind has been sold off for housing, meaning that the width of the platform would be restricted. The road bridge would also need to be reconstructed to give adequate clearance to a shifted track.

Re: London to Frankfurt and Geneva - direct trains from Eurostar?
In "The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom" [369174/29934/51]
Posted by Bob_Blakey at 09:18, 9th December 2025
 

This map implies that an HS2><HS1 connection would diverge from HS2 to/from Euston immediately west of the Chalk Farm Roundhouse.
Is that still the plan?
Assuming HS2 (or 'HSx') reaches at least as far north as Manchester, unless these trains run to/from Curzon Street, 'North of London' services would have no need to call at STP, where as things stand there is possibly insufficient platform capacity anyway, this seems to me a very sensible solution. 

Re: AQ9 - What has changed?
In "The Lighter Side" [369173/31229/30]
Posted by Richard Fairhurst at 09:14, 9th December 2025
 
The all-caps labels; the non-colocated circles for interchanges; the single green colour for the Metropolitan and District/Circle; the use of pull-outs (or "halos") so that a label can overlap a line (e.g. Monument); the centre alignment for multiple-line labels, even next to a vertical line (e.g. Highbury & Islington); the use of subtitles in smaller text for some stations (e.g. "Arsenal (Highbury Hill)"); concealing angles behind station interchange symbols (e.g. Mile End), which the modern Tube map never does; the stairs symbol at Monument/Bank.

Oh, and I think the whole thing is slightly out of register - the blue should be a bit up-and-to-the-left.

(I realise this is more than one answer, but I figured everyone else would be doing the factual stuff so I was clear to do the cartographical differences!  )

Re: R A Cooke Track Layout Diagrams
In "Media about railways, and other means of transport" [369172/31226/49]
Posted by bradshaw at 09:10, 9th December 2025
 
The Wilts Record Office at Chippenham has the plans and book of reference for the WSWR dated 1844/5. The map is in the form of a strip numbering every property through which it passes and 100yds on either side.
The book of reference lists each if these properties and give the owner, occupier and lessee for each. These are very under utilised resources. They can also be tied in to the Tithe Maps of similar dates. Copies were sent to every county through which the line was planned to pass.
The reference for this record office is
A1/371/68MS

Re: AQ9 - What has changed?
In "The Lighter Side" [369171/31229/30]
Posted by rogerpatenall at 09:09, 9th December 2025
 
Central line extended east from Liverpool Street

Re: AQ9 - What has changed?
In "The Lighter Side" [369170/31229/30]
Posted by Witham Bobby at 08:57, 9th December 2025
 
The Circle Line

Which was a "circle" of sorts, until it got cut through at Edgware Road

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2025
In "TransWilts line" [369169/29726/18]
Posted by matth1j at 08:41, 9th December 2025
 
Is this a glitch? As well as the 1900 Salisbury service from Chippenham, National Rail are also showing one at 1910, albeit cancelled:



National Rail link: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/journey-planner/?type=single&origin=CPM&destination=MKM&leavingType=departing&leavingDate=091225&leavingHour=17&leavingMin=45&adults=1&extraTime=0#O

EDIT: of course, that's just the (somewhat circuitous) Bath/Trowbridge route

Re: SWR improvements under GBR
In "South Western services" [369168/31227/42]
Posted by Bob_Blakey at 08:33, 9th December 2025
Already liked by Witham Bobby, Andy E
 
DfT has listed some improvements for nationalised operators under GBR as part of its livery launch

South Western Railway
In public ownership, South Western Railway are:
Modernising and improving their West of England Fleet, .....improving performance and reliability of the trains while delivering customer benefits such as interior upgrades and at-seat USB power. .....Building a new timetable for the first time in 20 years.....Investing over £600 million in improving infrastructure performance.....with projects such as West of England line resilience works.....

https://www.gov.uk/government/case-studies/gbr-improvements-train-operators-in-public-ownership-are-making-for-customers

All the current Class 159 trains have been in service since, at the latest, 1993. At a minimum of 32 years old and, surely approaching retirement, would new (multi-modal?) rolling stock not be a better option?

I wonder if one of the customer benefits being delivered would include the possibility of getting a cup of tea, etc. via a reinstated trolley service. 

The current timetable is seemingly the best that can be provided with the existing infrastructure; between Salisbury & Pinhoe even a minor delay can cause the overall service to collapse (recently a Waterloo-bound train was held at PIN for 40 minutes waiting for a late westbound service). Do the 'West of England line resilience works' include any actual infrastructure improvements? As a bare minimum I think the Tisbury loop should be moved to the station and the second platforms at Templecombe & Crewkerne reinstated.
 

Re: AQ9 - What has changed?
In "The Lighter Side" [369167/31229/30]
Posted by Fourbee at 08:31, 9th December 2025
 
Walham Green on the District Line is now Fulham Broadway. The old ticket hall has been repurposed: https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/pubs/walham-green-fulham/

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2025
In "TransWilts line" [369166/29726/18]
Posted by Timmer at 08:28, 9th December 2025
 
This morning looks interesting.   There are three services into one - with Castle Cary to Taunton closed for engineering, with Swindon to Parkway closed for flooding, three major main lines are all being funnelled through Chippenham and Bath.  If the 17:35 off Chippenham is held back / misses its path, it may be a bit of a wait for the next path, whether or not it's actually had to wait for passengers off the train from London, and irrespective of whether there's some diverted express running in its path so it has to be held back anyway.
To help the situation of all trains having to travel via Bath, GWR have cancelled all the hourly Cardiff to Paddington services and one of the two half hourly Bristol to London services.

Might be interesting at Bath today with the Christmas market on, though I suspect the poor weather may put some people off.

Re: R A Cooke Track Layout Diagrams
In "Media about railways, and other means of transport" [369165/31226/49]
Posted by grahame at 08:24, 9th December 2025
 
Maybe contact the S-R-S and see if they are happy to supply you free of charge a high definition file. It is a not-for-profit civic project that Lisa has in mind and, it gives them good publicity.

Section 21 of Cooke’s survey covers Wiltshire. Melksham p23 and 24

I have attached copies of Melksham.

Let me know if you need anything else ... [snip]

Thank you ... and thank you ... passing those on to Lisa and will come back in due course with a follow up / outcome.  Please do not expect that follow up with the lightning speed of your answers on the forum - it's quiet a project she's putting together!

Re: SWR improvements under GBR
In "South Western services" [369164/31227/42]
Posted by a-driver at 08:18, 9th December 2025
Already liked by Witham Bobby, Andy E, Richard Fairhurst
 
DfT has listed some improvements for nationalised operators under GBR as part of its livery launch

South Western Railway

In public ownership, South Western Railway are:

Modernising and improving their West of England Fleet, with a programme beginning in December 2025 (to be completed during 2028). This will overhaul the 15X fleet serving the West of England, improving performance and reliability of the trains while delivering customer benefits such as interior upgrades and at-seat USB power.

Delivering the new Arterio fleet to transform their suburban network, with over 50% of morning high peak arrivals into Waterloo now on Arterio trains. These provide increased capacity and more comfort for passengers. SWR are aiming for most Arterios to be introduced by the end of Summer 2026 (75% of total schedules).

Building a new timetable for the first time in 20 years, by consulting with stakeholders and passengers, with design in early 2026 and a full public consultation in Autumn 2026. The timetable transformation will seek to strike the right balance between enhanced connectivity in their communities, more services and capacity, better train performance on the network and increased economic value for the taxpayer.

Investing over £600 million in improving infrastructure performance to reduce delays and cancellations, complete by March 2027. This includes track and signal renewals, level crossing upgrades, and renewal of associated infrastructure, with projects such as West of England line resilience works, London Waterloo-Clapham Junction upgrades, Island Line improvements, and strengthening the railway at Fareham-Havant and Portsmouth Harbour.

Recruiting more drivers to improve reliability and reduce cancellations, with an increase in the numbers of drivers in active service each year, and increase the number of new drivers in training by 50%.

https://www.gov.uk/government/case-studies/gbr-improvements-train-operators-in-public-ownership-are-making-for-customers



That's it!

Modernising the 15x fleet was due anyway, it's a necessity rather then choice.

Building a timetable.  Standard twice yearly stuff

Infrastructure, again that's necessity rather than choice when something becomes life expired.

Delivering the new Arterio fleet, did that not commence prior to nationalisation?

Recruiting more drivers.  No real numbers given so, 1 is an increase! 

It's not setting the bar high for the new GBR.

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2025
In "TransWilts line" [369163/29726/18]
Posted by grahame at 08:12, 9th December 2025
 
17:35 Swindon to Westbury due 18:19 is being delayed at Swindon.
This is due to the train departing late to maintain customer connections.
While waiting for that at Chippenham (due 17:50) an empty IET passed through heading west at full tilt. I thought it might have been the reason for the delay, but the 17:35 was still parked at Swindon for a while after that.

I don't think too many 17:35 passengers decided to give up and make alternative arrangements when the announcement was made (more than once) that the fastest way to Melksham and beyond was going to be the 19:00 Salisbury service...

The announcement system is incorrect and confusing.  If a train misses a calling or departure point by more than a couple of minutes, an assumption is made that it's not running - the station displays say "delayed" which is correct but so vague it is not helpful, and the announcements chime in with telling you about the next train even if it's an hour or more away.   And that's even if the train can be seen on various feeds waiting for ... a late running connection, or a path over a busy line, and human and knowledgeable logic suggests that the train will turn up.

At Chippenham if the 17:50 does not "show", the next alternative is the 19:00 to Salisbury from the same platform anyway. The last bus to Melksham and Trowbridge left quarter of an hour ago, by the time a rail replacement bus is arranged it would be even later than the 19:09 into Melksham.

This morning looks interesting.   There are three services into one - with Castle Cary to Taunton closed for engineering, with Swindon to Parkway closed for flooding, three major main lines are all being funnelled through Chippenham and Bath.  If the 17:35 off Chippenham is held back / misses its path, it may be a bit of a wait for the next path, whether or not it's actually had to wait for passengers off the train from London, and irrespective of whether there's some diverted express running in its path so it has to be held back anyway.

Re: AQ9 - What has changed?
In "The Lighter Side" [369162/31229/30]
Posted by bradshaw at 08:04, 9th December 2025
 
Charing Cross on the District line is now calked Embankment. Renamed in 1976 so that the merged Strand and Trafalgar Square stations could be called Charing Cross.

Re: Only Connect - Lion Wall - AQ 8.12.2025
In "The Lighter Side" [369161/31224/30]
Posted by grahame at 07:58, 9th December 2025
Already liked by Chris from Nailsea
 
"Only Connect" walls make for a poor quiz on a forum such as the Coffee Shop.   They are fun to watch on TV or to play on your laptop ... but here, they encourage follow ups in which members make connections which are good and valid, but do not fit into the grid.  My apologies for putting up something which encouraged guesses that turned out to be  the wrong ones , and my thanks and admiration for the brave souls who hazarded a guess.

The base data I had for the Lion wall was

Next station is "saint"
Severn Beach
Hayle
Carbis Bay
Corkickle

Proposed for closure by Beeching but still with us
Lelant
Sandplace
Llanbister Road
Ainsdale

Camping Coaches
Blue Anchor
St Germans
Dawlish Warren
Ravenglass

Stations where trains reverse midjourney
Bere Alston
Coombe Junction
Battersby
Bodmin General

I will - intentionally - waste the water wall.  Post and answer.
AlloaAshingtonBrightonChippenham
DerbyKings CrossLevenMelksham
North BerwickOkehamptonPlymouthSwindon
TrowbridgeTweedbankWestburyYork

Stations with rail building works
York
Derby
Swindon
Brighton

Stations on TransWilts
Chippenham
Melksham
Trowbridge
Westbury

Stations with trains to Edinburgh
Plymouth
Kings Cross
Tweedbank
North Berwick

Terminal Stations reopened
Okehampton
Leven
Alloa
Ashington

All of which goes to show that for almost any idea / feature, there is a precedent / it's done or been done elsewhere


 
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