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USA - railways, public transport, services and incidents (merged posts)
20.7.2025 (Sunday) 16:03 - All running AOK
 
USA - railways, public transport, services and incidents (merged posts)
Posted by grahame at 06:37, 13th May 2015
 
Overnight news of a late night North West Corridor Regional service from Washington DC to New York derailment.

Currently reported as 5 dead, 50 injured ... thoughts with them and their families.

Very sad that the first news reports I see say "Terrorism is not suspected".   No news yet, of course, of the cause - it's happened on a curve; don't know whether it was going to fast or not ... coming off on a curve at speed you're going to end up with a mess, whether or not a speed limit was being exceeded.

Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015
Posted by stuving at 09:57, 13th May 2015
 
Here's a link to a report from the Guardian, and its start:
Amtrak train crash: at least five killed in Philadelphia derailment

Mayor describes ^disastrous^ scene with dozens more injured in train wreck on north-eastern
Jana Kasperkevic in New York, Warren Murray and agencies
Wednesday 13 May 2015 08.24 BST

At least five people were killed and dozens more injured when an Amtrak passenger train crashed in Philadelphia on Tuesday night.

The Northeast Regional 188 service was carrying 243 people including five crew when it went off the rails between Washington DC and New York City. The front of the train was going into a turn when it started to shake, according to passengers.

The Philadelphia mayor, Michael Nutter, said five people had been killed. He described a ^disastrous^ scene after going down on to the tracks. Authorities said another six people were critically injured and 65 taken to hospital from the accident on what is a busy route between New York City and the US capital.

Note that the line is the Northeast Corridor.

Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015
Posted by grahame at 13:32, 14th May 2015
 
Note that the line is the Northeast Corridor.

Correction noted - my error / rushed and garbled post.

From BBC:

A passenger train that derailed in Philadelphia, killing at least seven people, was travelling at twice the speed limit, say safety experts.

Full story,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32694447

with graph showing that Europe is much safer than USA (in general) for rail travel.   Includes  slightly confusing graph "passenger miles per injury" v year - so the LOWER curves are the more dangerous countries

The author, Kevin Hassett, writes: "Based on data spanning the period 2004-12, for example, to expect one transit-related injury, a passenger would need to ride the French railroad for 4.9 million miles or the German railroad for 4.1 million miles. Yet he would need to ride America's railroads for only 84,300 miles, on average, to sustain one injury."



Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 20:37, 16th May 2015
 
From the Guardian:

Amtrak crash: safety mechanism to slow speeding trains was close to operational

Positive train control system was simply awaiting authorization to use private airwaves that would have made transponders along train^s route operational

As families begin holding funerals for the eight people killed by Tuesday^s Amtrak train derailment, officials say a safety mechanism that could have stopped the crash was close to being in operation.

The seven-car Amtrak Northeast Regional train 188 left the tracks just after 9pm Tuesday outside of Philadelphia^s 30th Street station, with more than 200 passengers on board. The train was traveling at more than 100mph, more than twice the posted speed limit. Federal and local authorities are investigating the accident, and criminal charges are possible.

Had an existing safety system been in use, however, the accident may have been prevented. On the Amtrak line between New York and Philadelphia, transponders already on tracks could have slowed the speeding locomotive, but the system was awaiting testing to use the private airwaves that would have made the technology operational, federal officials said.

The safety systems, called positive train control (PTC), were required on commuter and some commercial rail lines in 2008 by Congress in the Rail Safety Improvement Act. The law requires the systems to be implemented by the end of 2015.

Federal railway regulators say the technology uses digital airwaves and GPS to slow speeding trains on bends, preventing speed-related derailments. The technology can also prevent head-on collisions, and stop trains from speeding through work zones, rail regulators say.

In early March, the Federal Communications Commission had just finalized its approval a deal between the railroad and a private purveyor of digital frequencies to begin the safety devices. The deal was years in the making; Amtrak had been working to obtain the frequencies since 2011.

However, Amtrak, a publicly funded railroad run by a for-profit corporation, struggled to complete the safety project under its existing funding.

Congressional Republicans voted to further cut that funding Wednesday, just hours after the preventable accident killed eight people along the rail. No railroad has finished the safety upgrades to date, federal railway regulators said.

^Knowing many railroads were struggling both financially and technically to meet the deadline for PTC implementation at the end of this year, we have twice asked Congress for authority to better manage the deployment of this safety system as quickly and safely as possible,^ said Kevin F Thompson, spokesperson for the Federal Railroad Administration in a statement emailed to the Guardian.

^Additionally, we have twice requested additional funding from Congress to help Amtrak and commuter railroads implement PTC. While we wait for Congress to act, we will continue to work with all of our stakeholders to ensure that railroads have PTC in use across the country as quickly as possible.^

On Wednesday, the House appropriations committee voted to cut Amtrak^s funding by more than $250m from the $1.4bn it invested last year in the publicly funded, for-profit rail.

In New York one of the first funerals for one of the crash victims was held Friday morning. Justin Zemser, 20, was a US naval academy midshipman, according to Reuters.

Some of the first legal repercussions of the crash are beginning to surface. Philadelphia police are investigating it as a criminal incident.

National Transportation Safety Board member Robert Sumwalt said in a Thursday media briefing that the train^s brakes appeared to be working properly, and that there did not appear to be anything unusual in a track inspection. Federal transportation investigators have yet to interview the train^s engineer, Brandon Bostian.

Philadelphia police said Wednesday that Bostian had refused an in-depth interview, and left a police station with a lawyer. His attorney said Bostian has no recollection of the moments leading up to the crash, according to several media reports. However, Reuters reports that Bostian is scheduled to be interviewed by the NTSB in the coming days.

^We look very much forward to the opportunity to interview him. We appreciate that opportunity. We feel that interview will provide us a lot of information,^ Sumwalt said.

Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015
Posted by ellendune at 20:46, 16th May 2015
 
So should the relatives be pointing the finger at the Republican budget cuts as the fault?

Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015
Posted by ChrisB at 20:51, 16th May 2015
 
The driver, surely?

Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015
Posted by grahame at 21:03, 16th May 2015
 
The driver, surely?

No - not "surely" ....

The Amtrak train that derailed along the nation^s busiest tracks may have been struck by an object in the moments before it crashed, investigators said Friday, raising new questions about the deadly accident.

from http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/15/philadelphia-amtrak-crash-gets-weirder-fbi-to-investigate-possible-projectile-strike/

May I remind you all of the big danger of deciding on responsibility for accidents ...


Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015
Posted by ellendune at 21:07, 16th May 2015
 
May I remind you all of the big danger of deciding on responsibility for accidents ...

Sorry if I overstepped a line that is why I asked a question rather than expressing an opinion. 

Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015
Posted by ChrisB at 21:10, 16th May 2015
 
Something striking the train wouldn't result in it doing 100mph in a 50 limit, would it? Unless it was a rocket up its rear, I guess.

And I put a questionark after my comment too

Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015
Posted by grahame at 21:31, 16th May 2015
 
May I remind you all of the big danger of deciding on responsibility for accidents ...

Sorry if I overstepped a line that is why I asked a question rather than expressing an opinion. 

Something striking the train wouldn't result in it doing 100mph in a 50 limit, would it? Unless it was a rocket up its rear, I guess.

And I put a questionark after my comment too

I'm just making the point before we go further than we should 

A further report I saw referred to checking the windscreen for something striking it.   And that may not be good for the  driver {for example}


USA - railways, public transport, services and incidents (merged posts)
Posted by JayMac at 15:23, 17th May 2015
 
from the BBC:

Bus passengers in Atlanta, Georgia had an extremely lucky escape as their bus waited in traffic.

The passengers realised that they were stuck in the path of an oncoming train, and started shouting to the bus driver to open the doors.

Video inside the bus caught the dramatic and frightening moment when the train collided with the bus.

Video of the incident accompanies the story. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32771048

USA - railways, public transport, services and incidents (merged posts)
Posted by grahame at 20:55, 12th August 2016
 
http://shareably.net/dog-in-totes-nyc-subway-v1

There’s a new rule in New York City’s subways, and owners of large dogs are having to get very creative in response. It reads, "No person may bring any animal on or into any conveyance or facility unless enclosed in a container."


One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by broadgage at 16:15, 29th September 2016
 
Fatal train crash in new Jersey, USA.
3 lives confirmed to be lost with fears that the death may be significantly higher. No news as yet as to suspected cause.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37503920

Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by broadgage at 16:18, 29th September 2016
 
Slightly later reports state that train ran off the end of the line at a terminus, through the ticket barriers, and that part of the station building has collapsed.
At Hoboken station, new Jersey, a busy commuter station.

It is feared that people may be trapped under the wreckage.

Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by Jason at 16:23, 29th September 2016

Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by ChrisB at 18:13, 29th September 2016
 
One now being reported dead, 51 injured in hospital, 3 critical

Driver survived, one of the injured

Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by broadgage at 19:36, 29th September 2016
 
Later reports on BBC TV news implied that the installation of some new safety system that could probably have prevented this accident was "underway but not yet completed at the location of the accident"

"positive train control" If I heard it correctly, sounds a bit similar in scope and purpose to TPWS.

Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 20:07, 29th September 2016
 
An update, from the BBC:

Hoboken station crash: New Jersey train disaster 'kills one'

One person has been killed and 108 others injured, some of them critically, after a commuter train crashed into a railway station in the US state of New Jersey.

The train reportedly went through ticket barriers and into the reception area of Hoboken station.

Images show extensive damage to the train carriages and station, with part of the building roof caved in.

Witnesses described a scene of horror at the station.

A huge emergency services operation swung into action following the crash, with firefighters and transport staff helping people from wrecked carriages.

Hoboken is across the Hudson River from New York City. Many commuters use the busy station to travel into Manhattan.

New Jersey Governor Chris Christie confirmed there had been one fatality. Earlier reports said three people had died.

"We're not going to speculate on the cause of the accident," Governor Christie said at a news conference.

Mr Christie added that the person killed in the accident was struck by debris while standing on a platform. He did not provide more details on the victim.

Mark Cardona was on the platform at the time. The "runaway" train missed me by 10-15 feet (3-5m), he told the BBC. There was "absolutely zero chance to react", Mr Cardona said. "It went full speed into and then through the building. I froze. People were screaming... The ceiling started to collapse. I ran for my life."

Ben Fairclough, a witness who was at the station, told the BBC: "I wasn't on the train, but I arrived just after it happened. There was water coming down off the roof and people climbing out through the windows. There were people sitting down with blood coming from their head. There were lots of injuries."

US rail safety

In 2008 the US Congress passed a law requiring all trains to install Positive Train Control (PTC) systems by the end of 2015.

But most rail companies were unable to meet the deadline as the system is expensive and complex to install. Some rail lines - including New Jersey Transit - threatened to shut down completely if it was enforced. In response, Congress extended the deadline to install PTC systems to 2018.

Rail lines can then apply for an additional two-year extension to finalise updates and test the system. But safety targets for New Jersey's commuter trains say PTC installation should be completed by 2018.

According New Jersey Transit's most recent PTC progress report, none of the 440 trains on the New Jersey Transit rail line are equipped with PTC, nor have any employees been trained on the equipment.

PTC safety systems are designed to automatically override the actions of train engineers if the locomotive is travelling too fast. In effect, they act as a safeguard against "human error" which could cause derailments or collisions.

The system uses wifi, GPS and a specific coding system to relay real-time information from trains to control centres.

Last year, the Guardian reported that US trains were far behind those in Europe, which have had automatic safety systems for years.

New Jersey Transit posted on Twitter that the service out of Hoboken station had been suspended as a result of the crash.


The train ploughed into the station


The roof of the station collapsed


Passengers fled wrecked carriages


Emergency workers treated the many wounded



Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by ChrisB at 23:29, 29th September 2016
 
That page has been updated to name the lady killed by flying debris on a platform. There's also a link to details on the safety system. The New Jersey Transit considered it too expensive to fit when first required by State legislators, so deadline was pushed out to 2018, with a further two year extension possible!

But at least no one killed on the train itself (yet)

Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by ChrisB at 23:41, 29th September 2016
 
Blimey! This thread is really far West!

[edit]was in Across the West thread when I posted this[/edit]

Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 23:49, 29th September 2016
 
A valid comment, ChrisB: this topic was indeed on our 'The Wider Picture' board - until I renamed it, to clarify some facts of the sad incident as they became known.

I've now moved this topic back to where it belongs, with my apologies for any confusion. 

Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016
Posted by Noggin at 11:43, 30th September 2016
 
That page has been updated to name the lady killed by flying debris on a platform. There's also a link to details on the safety system. The New Jersey Transit considered it too expensive to fit when first required by State legislators, so deadline was pushed out to 2018, with a further two year extension possible!

But at least no one killed on the train itself (yet)

The saga relating to PTC, which indeed, is similar to AWS and other systems that apply the brakes in the event of an overspeed/SPAD. You can read more about it at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control.

In many ways the fact that so few people were killed is down to the robust construction of US rolling stock, which of course is terrible for energy consumption and performance, but does help in tragic circumstances like these.

Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by SandTEngineer at 18:21, 18th December 2017
 
This looks really serious.  The train has derailed off an overbridge onto one of the state highways.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42401707



Train carriages have plummeted on to a motorway in Washington state, causing "multiple" fatalities, police say.

The train derailed and the carriages fell on to the I-5 highway below.

Images from the scene show emergency services treating people on the ground. It appears that at least four carriages have left the track; one of them is upside down on the highway.

Several cars on the highway were struck by the derailed carriages, the Pierce County Sheriff's department says.

Sheriff department spokesman Ed Troyer said that there were "multiple" fatalities on the train, but no motorists had been killed.

The fire department had taken many people out of the train and they had been taken to hospitals, he added.

One carriage was hanging from the tracks, while another was upside down
Passenger Chris Karnes, on board the train, said the carriage he was on careened down an embankment then came to a stop: "We could hear and feel the cars crumpling and breaking apart, and water came out from the ceiling."

"In order to get out... we had to kick out the emergency window," he said.

Amtrak said that there were approximately 78 passengers and five crew members on board the train.

The incident happened near DuPont, which is southwest of Tacoma.

Officials have set up a family reunification centre at DuPont city hall, and asked people not to come to the scene of the crash.

The was the first time an Amtrak train carrying passengers southbound had run on a new section of track running parallel to I-5, called the Point Defiance Bypass.

The crash occurred around 07:30 (15:30 GMT), about 45 minutes into train 501's journey between Portland and Seattle.

Before the crash, it was travelling at more than 80mph (130km/h).

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by Oxonhutch at 19:22, 18th December 2017
 
As a part-time railwayman, something about this stinks. I'll leave it at that right now.

Condolences to all. Awful time.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by grahame at 19:39, 18th December 2017
 
I noted that the line opened ... today - https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Rail/PNWRC_PtDefiance/default.htm - and as such there will be some rather different factors to the norm to be considered.

Overview
The Point Defiance Bypass Project will reroute passenger trains to an inland rail line along the west side of I-5 through south Tacoma, Lakewood, and DuPont.  Sound Transit currently uses a portion of this route for Sounder commuter rail service to Lakewood.
This project will improve passenger train reliability by reducing congestion with freight trains and eliminating travel on tight corners and tunnels.

Why is WSDOT upgrading tracks for passenger trains to bypass the Point Defiance area in Tacoma?
Passenger trains, including Amtrak Cascades, currently must slow down due to curves and single-track tunnels on the BNSF Railway main line tracks near Point Defiance and along southern Puget Sound.

This project reroutes passenger trains to an inland route.  The bypass is on an existing rail line that runs along the west side of Interstate 5 (I-5), from south Tacoma through Lakewood and DuPont. It reconnects back to the BNSF Railway main line near Nisqually, on the east side of I-5. It also adds a new Amtrak Cascades station in Tacoma's Freighthouse Square building.

Freight train traffic patterns will not change with most freight trains continuing to use the existing main line near Point Defiance and along southern Puget Sound. The few freight trains that currently use the bypass route will continue to use it during and after the project.

The End Result
The end result is more frequent, more reliable, and faster Amtrak Cascades service.

The improvements will allow passenger trains to use the bypass route without being delayed by freight or Sounder trains. After the completion of other capital rail projects, two additional daily round trip passenger trains could be added. Freight train traffic will not increase on this line beyond the minimal amount that utilizes it today.

When completed, the Point Defiance Rail Bypass project will bring a total of six daily round trip Amtrak Cascades trains and one Coast Starlight train through Tacoma, Lakewood, and DuPont intersections, with an average crossing time of 45 seconds per intersection and a maximum speed of 79 mph.

Project Benefits

Improved Amtrak Cascades reliability.
Faster, more frequent Amtrak Cascades service.
 

What is the project timeline?
The environmental and design process began in July 2006, and was completed in 2008.
The new line opens to service on Dec. 18, 2017.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by stuving at 19:44, 18th December 2017
 
I saw that said this was a new bit of line. It is mostly straight, alongside I5, then does quite a sharp wiggle to cross it to the south side to join the old Point Defiance line. I reckon that bend is around 260 m radius, which is pretty sharp to be taken at 80 mi/hr. But new track is tested, and American safety rules on this kind of thing are as strict as anyone else's.

It looks as if the front of the train did leave the track to go straight on, down a slope to the road. As it slowed the following carriages concertinaed and some came off on the inside of the turn and so they came down the side of the embankment beside the bridge.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by trainer at 22:24, 18th December 2017
 
On this site we encourage people not to speculate on such accidents too much and often first impressions prove inadequate explanations.  However, according to several news sources (inc. The Independent and Sky News) President Trump has no such qualms and is already using (exploiting?) this awful tragedy to push his infrastructure agenda. An example of poor infrastructure or not, it's certainly not old and in need of replacement and one wonders how at such an early stage it can be used as an example of anything.

A very sad day for all concerned and as others have, I express my sympathy for the individuals caught up in it.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by grahame at 06:40, 19th December 2017
 
On this site we encourage people not to speculate on such accidents too much and often first impressions prove inadequate explanations.  However, according to several news sources (inc. The Independent and Sky News) President Trump has no such qualms and is already using (exploiting?) this awful tragedy to push his infrastructure agenda. An example of poor infrastructure or not, it's certainly not old and in need of replacement and one wonders how at such an early stage it can be used as an example of anything.

A very sad day for all concerned and as others have, I express my sympathy for the individuals caught up in it.

Mr Trump's suggestion that this shows the need for infrastructure modernisation seems to be at odds with what is being said elsewhere.   True, we don't speculate before anything's know here ... but so much is bang said and talked about that I'm going to quote  an online sources.

From ApNews

DUPONT, Wash. (AP) — An Amtrak train making the first-ever run along a faster new route hurtled off an overpass south of Seattle on Monday and spilled some of its cars onto the highway below, killing at least three people, injuring dozens and crushing two vehicles, authorities said.

Attention quickly turned to the train’s speed. A website that maps location and speed using data from Amtrak’s train tracker app showed the train was going 81.1 mph (129 kph) about a quarter of a mile from the point where it derailed, where the speed limit is significantly lower.

There were 80 passengers and five on duty crew when the train derailed and pulled 13 cars off the tracks. Authorities said there were three confirmed deaths. More than 70 people were taken for medical care — including 10 with serious injuries.

About two hours after the accident, a U.S. official who was briefed on the investigation said he was told at least six people were killed. The official said he had no new information to explain the discrepancy in the numbers.

The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

A track chart prepared by the Washington State Department of Transportation shows the maximum speed drops from 79 mph (127 kph) to 30 mph (48 kph) for passenger trains just before the tracks curve to cross Interstate 5, which is where the train went off the tracks.

The chart, dated Feb. 7, 2017, was submitted to the Federal Railroad Administration in anticipation of the start of passenger service along a new bypass route that shaves 10 minutes off the trip between Seattle and Portland.

It was not clear how fast the train was moving at the precise moment when it derailed. National Transportation Safety Board investigators were at the scene trying to determine the derailment’s cause.

Kimberly Reason with Sound Transit, the Seattle-area transit agency that owns the tracks, confirmed to the AP that the speed limit at the point where the train derailed is 30 mph (48 kph). Speed signs are posted two miles before the speed zone and just before the speed zone approaching the curve, she said.

Positive train control — the technology that can slow or stop a speeding train — wasn’t in use on this stretch of track, according to Amtrak President Richard Anderson.

He spoke on a conference call with reporters, said he was “deeply saddened by all that has happened today.”

Bob Chipkevich, a former NTSB director of railroad, pipeline and hazardous materials investigations, told The Seattle Times the crash looked like a high-speed derailment based on television images.

In a radio transmission immediately after the accident, the conductor can be heard saying the train was coming around a corner and was crossing a bridge that passed over Interstate 5 when it derailed. Dispatch audio also indicated that the engineer survived with bleeding from the head and both eyes swollen shut.

“I’m still figuring that out. We’ve got cars everywhere and down onto the highway,” he tells the dispatcher, who asks if everyone is OK.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by grahame at 07:52, 19th December 2017
 
And from The BBC ... new text at the top into which I suspect they've pasted background from yesterday

A US passenger train that derailed, killing three people, was going at 81mph (130km/h) on a curve with a restricted speed limit, according to data from a train tracking website.The curve's speed limit drops to 30mph.Passengers say the train rocked and creaked as it took the bend fast before barrelling off a bridge on to a motorway packed with traffic.

It happened in Washington state during rush hour on Monday and officials say 72 people were taken to hospitals.

A number of those injured are reported to be in a critical condition. Authorities said all carriages had now been searched, but would not rule out a rise in the number of dead.

The cause of Monday's crash has not been confirmed. Seven vehicles, two of them lorries, were hit on the I-5 highway below. Several people were injured in their vehicles but none died.

State transport spokesperson Barbara LaBoe was quoted in the Seattle Times newspaper as saying the limit on most of the track was 79mph (128km/h) but drivers were supposed to slow dramatically at the spot where the train derailed.
She said warning signs were in place two miles before the lowered limit.

It was Amtrak's first passenger service to run on a new, shorter route. Amtrak is the name of the company that runs most passenger trains in the US, with some government funding. The derailment happened on a section of track previously only used for freight trains.

Train 501 had left Seattle, heading south for Portland, at 06:00 local time (14:00 GMT).

One passenger carriage could be seen dangling from the bridge, while others were strewn across the road and the wooded area next to the track.There were 86 people on board, including 77 passengers and seven Amtrak crew members, as well as a train technician. Police say 19 people were taken from the scene uninjured. Of the 72 transferred to hospitals for evaluation, 10 were considered to have serious injuries.

A recording of the train's emergency call to railway dispatchers was released to US media.
"Emergency! We are on the ground!" a man, possibly the conductor, radios in.
In a second radio call, another crew member reports that only the rear unit remains on the rails.
"All other cars appear to be on the ground in quite a mess," he says.
The train's engineer has a head injury, he tells dispatchers.

President Donald Trump's first reaction to the derailment was to tweet that it showed the need for his forthcoming infrastructure plan. However US media outlets pointed out his submitted federal transportation budget actually proposed cuts to funding to national rail systems. He later added that his thoughts and prayers were with those involved.

The section of track where the crash happened has been recently rebuilt and upgraded using federal funds.

Washington's governor has declared a state of emergency in two counties.

Passenger Chris Karnes, on board the train, said his carriage had careered down an embankment then come to a stop: "We could hear and feel the cars crumpling and breaking apart, and water came out from the ceiling." "In order to get out... we had to kick out the emergency window," he added.

Governor Jay Inslee said he was praying for the many injured. Officials set up a family reunification centre at DuPont city hall and asked people not to come to the scene of the crash.

A local news reporter who was on the train, but got off at a stop just before the crash, said many of those on board were railway enthusiasts, keen to experience the first high-speed train on the new route. Every passenger was given a commemorative lanyard and badge to mark their journey, he said.

The train involved was operated by Amtrak and Monday's service was the first 0600 departure under the new timetable and on the new Point Defiance Bypass route

The train consisted of 14 cars, two of which were locomotives

It was being led by a Siemens Charger locomotive and was trailing a P52 unit which was not under power, Amtrak said

There were 12 Talgo carriages, each of which could take up to 36 passengers, but only 77 customers were on board




Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by TonyK at 09:29, 19th December 2017
 
Whatever the cause, it is an awful accident. It is amazing, however, that it wasn't worse. Despite carriages falling onto a busy road in rush hour, no-one outside the train seems to have died as a result of this incident.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by Worcester_Passenger at 10:28, 19th December 2017
 
The BBC report has a link to the Seattle Times report, https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/, which has a picture from above - a very sharp curve indeed.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by Phantom at 12:19, 19th December 2017
 
I reckon that bend is around 260 m radius, which is pretty sharp to be taken at 80 mi/hr. But new track is tested, and American safety rules on this kind of thing are as strict as anyone else's.


Doing 80 mph on an area where the limit was 30mph

Inexperienced driver using the new line?, Train fault? Something went VERY wrong

RIP

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by Red Squirrel at 18:01, 19th December 2017
 
The BBC report has a link to the Seattle Times report, https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/, which has a picture from above - a very sharp curve indeed.

I'm sure the curvature is greatly exaggerated by the foreshortening effect of a long lens... but it's a bend alright, as you can see on Google maps

Edit: add link to Google maps

Re: Washington USA - Train Crash 18/12/2017
Posted by stuving at 18:33, 19th December 2017
 
The BBC report has a link to the Seattle Times report, https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/, which has a picture from above - a very sharp curve indeed.

I'm sure the curvature is greatly exaggerated by the foreshortening effect of a long lens...

Seen from above, it's still quite a bend for a train.

There have been a lot of overspeed accidents recently, and the main three I can think of have two big common factors. The three are SNCF Eckwersheim Nov 2015, Amtrak Philadelphia May 2015, and Renfe Santiago de Compostela July 2013.

Firstly, all these trains could or should have had some train control system that would prevent overspeeding, by warning the driver or intervening. It was variously turned off for testing, missing transitionally, and for Amtrak "OK, we're doing it but give us a year or two more" still applies for the latest one. When the NTSB reported on Amtrak Passenger Train 188, the chairman commented “Unless positive train control is implemented soon, I’m very concerned that we’re going to be back in this room again, hearing investigators detail how technology that we have recommended for more than 45 years could have prevented yet another fatal rail accident.”

The other common factor in the first three is distraction. Phone calls, radio messages, and too many people in the cab all played a part in "loss of situational awareness". I will not be surprised if this inaugural trip over a new section of track involved something similar. Otherwise, the new track only has one very noticeable feature in it - a sharp bend  following a long straight.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by froome at 18:57, 19th December 2017
 
One commentator I heard last night said the US has a very bad track record of train accidents. Is that the case? If so, any reason why?

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by grahame at 19:53, 19th December 2017
 
One commentator I heard last night said the US has a very bad track record of train accidents. Is that the case? If so, any reason why?

There do seem to be an awful lot of them.  Whether that's because ATC only operates on a few lines and there are large numbers of open level crossings, or simply because it's such a huge country and accidents per mile are no worse than elsewhere, I wouldn't know.    Obviously, if you have a line 10 miles long that carried 1500 journeys a day, it's a lot cheaper to maintain than a line 100 miles long with the same number of journeys, so things seem not to be quite so gold-safety plated as in the UK.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by Tim at 10:01, 20th December 2017
 
It is reported that two of the people to die were train fans and public transport advocates who had been involved in campaigning for improvements on the route on which they dies.  Terribly sad http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/2-rail-buffs-killed-in-wreck-couldn-t-wait-for-12443648.php

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by grahame at 10:08, 20th December 2017
 
Quoting a little more in tribute

SEATTLE (AP) — They weren't just two guys who loved trains. Jim Hamre and Zack Willhoite were also bosom buddies in their passion for public transportation who had excitedly awaited the day higher-speed trains could zip through their home turf. The two pals hopped on an Amtrak train together Monday, becoming some of the first passengers to take the maiden voyage of a faster route between Portland, Oregon, and Seattle.

Hamre, 61, and Willhoite, 35, were among the three killed when the train going 80 mph in a 30 mph zone derailed south of Seattle and toppled some cars on a highway below. Dozens of others were hurt, some seriously.

Family and friends said Tuesday that they were devastated by the deaths, describing the men as devoted rail advocates who were loved by many. They were both knowledgeable about the technical aspects of trains and had spent their lives advocating for such a route.

"Yesterday was a moment of great happiness for them, which makes this so heartbreaking," said Carl Fowler, a friend who has worked with Hamre and Willhoite in rail advocacy for years. He added: "Despite yesterday's tragedy, the Cascade corridor that they built will be their monument."

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by didcotdean at 17:20, 20th December 2017
 
One commentator I heard last night said the US has a very bad track record of train accidents. Is that the case? If so, any reason why?
Per train-kilometre the USA mortality rate is twice that of the EU average and about five times that in the UK (source: OECD).

Using a different measure, on average to experience any kind of injury on a train ride in France or Germany you would need to travel roughly 50 times further than in the USA. For further perspective this is still over 80,000 miles.


Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by SandTEngineer at 19:24, 22nd December 2017
 
An update (22/12/2017):

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/washington-state-no-passenger-trains-on-amtrak-derailment-route-until-safety-systems-are-in-place

Washington state transportation officials won’t restart passenger service along the rail line where an Amtrak train derailed until advanced safety systems are in place, a spokeswoman said Thursday.

Barbara LaBoe, a spokeswoman for the Washington state Department of Transportation, said passenger trains will use the older rail line along the coast until “positive train control” technology is ready for the Point Defiance Bypass route.

The Amtrak train that derailed on Monday, killing three people and injuring dozens more, was on its inaugural passenger run along the new bypass line that was to speed service south of Tacoma. Investigators still examining the cause of the crash say the train was traveling 80 mph when it entered a curve that has a speed limit of 30 mph.

Officials pushed 'aggressive' timeline before safety tech was ready.

Here’s what we know — and don’t know — about the derailment near Olympia
It took authorities hours to search the wreckage.

Train was 50 mph over limit when it derailed at curve before I-5 crossing

Longtime rail advocates among those killed

Lakewood mayor had predicted new Amtrak rail line would lead to fatalities.

Man pulled gun on motorist taking food to Amtrak derailment first responders, prosecutors say

Positive train control systems can detect a train that’s exceeding speed limits and slow the train. Crews have been working to set up those systems on the Point Defiance Bypass route — and had hoped to have it ready at the start of service — but were still in the testing phase this week.

Officials had been working on an “aggressive” timeline to finish the new line this year, with documents showing the state had a deadline of the middle of the year to finish construction in order to fully collect on federal stimulus money awarded years earlier. The state had also vowed to open service in the fall.

LaBoe said the decision to halt passenger service on the new route until the systems were in place was not an indication that the state considers the tracks unsafe. She said the new line had been thoroughly inspected and that it was a matter of sensitivity, for those killed in the tragedy and for those who will ride the route in the future. She also said officials were wanting to have renewed conversations with communities along the new route.

“It’s not a question of the safety of those tracks,” LaBoe said. The older route where trains will continue running also does not have the train-control technology, but LaBoe said the state has been operating there for many years without major issues.

LaBoe said the state didn’t know when the train-control systems would be ready for the new line. A spokesman for Sound Transit, which owns the tracks, has said it’s planning to activate the technology before the end of June. Sound Transit has also been working to get more train-control coverage for its Sounder trains.

The National Transportation Safety Board, which is investigating this week’s derailment, has long pushed for train-control systems, repeatedly citing the issue after deadly crashes. In 2008, Congress mandated that railroads use the computerized systems by the end of 2015. But, facing cost and implementation challenges, the industry convinced Congress to extend the deadline until the end of 2018.

Accidents have continued to draw attention to the issue, and some have had speed similarities similar to Monday’s crash. In 2013, a Metro-North passenger train in New York derailed while traveling 82 mph at a curve where the maximum authorized speed was 30 mph, according to the NTSB, killing four people and injuring dozens. In 2015, an Amtrak passenger train in Philadelphia derailed while traveling 106 mph around a curve where the speed was restricted to 50 mph, according to the NTSB, killing eight people and injuring many more.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by Electric train at 19:45, 22nd December 2017
 
This youtube video has some interesting clips and photos and a segment on "PTC"  we would call it ETCS level 2.

You'll have to excuse the presenter he is American, a youtuber and not a professional reporter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv8PEG0hcbQ

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by grahame at 00:50, 23rd December 2017
 
The personal story of someone who was on the train ...

https://transitsleuth.com/2017/12/21/the-story-on-amtrak-cascades-train-501-derailment/amp/

Long piece - but worth taking the time to read to learn how things panned out ...

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by grahame at 07:38, 23rd December 2017
 
The personal story of someone who was on the train ...

https://transitsleuth.com/2017/12/21/the-story-on-amtrak-cascades-train-501-derailment/amp/

Long piece - but worth taking the time to read to learn how things panned out ...

The American way of accident investigation in the open leads to a further drip out of evidence of what went wrong to the media.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonwells/amtrak-engineer-knew-train-was-going-too-fast

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5207893/Curve-emergency-brakes-played-role-Amtrak-crash.html


Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by SandTEngineer at 10:22, 23rd December 2017
 
Oh dear......

The train was equipped with Positive Train Control, a technology that uses GPS to monitor and automatically slow trains down in potentially dangerous situations, but the system had not yet been certified for use, officials said.

I wonder why?

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by Electric train at 16:22, 23rd December 2017
 
This youtube video is of the commissioning runs 7 Dec 17.   The interesting thing to look for is the "bogies" under the coaches, they are an articulated type nothing unusual although not used in the UK except Eurostar 373.  Its still usual to see twin axel bogies supporting the 2 carriage's, however if you look at the youtube video you will notice a single axel supporting 2 carriages.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zv3dSuarXE

The initial reports indicate excessive speed some 50 mph over the limit as the cause, I do wonder if the single axel contributed to the magnitude of the derailment also the fact there was a 120 ton plus locomotive attached to the rear. 

I am sure the USA TSB will look to see if the above added to the accident 

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by stuving at 17:32, 23rd December 2017
 
This youtube video is of the commissioning runs 7 Dec 17.   The interesting thing to look for is the "bogies" under the coaches, they are an articulated type nothing unusual although not used in the UK except Eurostar 373.  Its still usual to see twin axel bogies supporting the 2 carriage's, however if you look at the youtube video you will notice a single axel supporting 2 carriages.

The initial reports did say the carriages were made by Talgo, so the use of what is their signature design feature isn't a surprise. They are longer than the original Spansih ones, though.

The initial reports indicate excessive speed some 50 mph over the limit as the cause, I do wonder if the single axel contributed to the magnitude of the derailment also the fact there was a 120 ton plus locomotive attached to the rear. 

I am sure the USA TSB will look to see if the above added to the accident 

The fixed structural pivots of the articulated bogie (even with one axle) should hold the carriages upright much better than any coupling, though once the train concertinas that effect no longer operates over the full length of the train.

The analysis after the "Polmont Cow" didn't support the idea that having a light trailer at the front made derailment easier, let alone that having mass at the rear would. I think the key point is whether and where the train concertinas, and that is due to the back overrunning the front. Once the lead carriages are running off the track they must slow down fast, probably much faster even than brakes can on the track. I suspect the mass of half a train pushing a carriage, when its front end is being pushed back and sideways by the half that's derailed and now slowing, would be enough to produce this kind of opposite-side derailment.

After the Polmont Cow accident (I was living in Bo'ness, which is very close, in 1984) my thought was that having a heavy lead vehicle, which would decelerate slower than the trailers behind it, would be a good idea. That ought to pull the derailed part of the consist straight and so resist it concertaing, which at Polmont the leading DVT clearly didn't.

Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017
Posted by SandTEngineer at 08:39, 24th December 2017
 
There is an interesting report from somebody aboard the derailed train: https://transitsleuth.com/2017/12/21/the-story-on-amtrak-cascades-train-501-derailment

West Virginia train hits garbage truck - one killed
Posted by grahame at 17:48, 31st January 2018
 
Yet another USA rail accident fatality     ...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/train-carrying-members-congress-involved-accident/story?id=52741522

With many members of the US congress on the train, this will bring rather graphically the whole matter of rail safety to their notice ...

"two dead" in railway accident, South Carolina, USA.
Posted by broadgage at 11:21, 4th February 2018
 
Early reports suggest two lives lost in a collision between a passenger train and a freight train.
These are very early reports and may later prove inaccurate.

Source is BBC news website "breaking news"

Edited to add slightly later and more detailed report.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42935764

Re: "two dead" in railway accident, South Carolina, USA.
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 20:30, 4th February 2018
 
With thanks to broadgage for starting this latest, very sad, topic - it is now confirmed that the death toll is two.

From the BBC:

South Carolina Amtrak crash: Two killed after trains collide

An Amtrak train carrying 147 people has collided with a goods train in the US state of South Carolina, killing two people and injuring 116 others.

The two fatalities were both members of Amtrak staff, South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster has confirmed.

He said the incident - the latest in a series in recent years - should trigger a national debate about rail safety.

Just four days ago, a lorry driver was killed when his vehicle hit a train carrying lawmakers in Virginia.

The South Carolina crash happened at 02:35 local time (07:35 GMT) in the town of Cayce, just outside the state capital Columbia. The train was travelling from New York and heading for Miami, when it hit the goods train, causing its lead engine and several carriages to derail.

Governor McMaster said it appeared the Amtrak train had been on the wrong track at the time of the crash.


Officials are trying to find out what led to the collision

The American Red Cross sent rescue workers to the scene of the collision, and emergency services say all passengers have been evacuated from the train.

Mr McMaster said 116 people were taken to hospital for treatment. An emergency official earlier told reporters the injuries ranged in severity from small scratches to broken bones.

A shelter has been set up at a nearby school for passengers to get assistance.

According to Amtrak, 139 passengers and eight staff members were aboard the train. According to Governor McMaster, no-one was aboard the goods train, run by freight operator CSX. He said it was stationary on track at the time of the crash.

An estimated 5,000 gallons (22,000 litres) of fuel was spilled from the CSX train but emergency officials said there was no threat to the public.

"The incident is very near the state farmers' market and other residential areas but right now, everyone is safe," Derrec Becker, a spokesman at for the state emergency department, said.

One passenger, Derek Pettaway, told CNN he had been travelling from Philadelphia to Orlando in a sleeper cabin when he had been awoken by the impact of the crash.

The train's staff evacuated passengers in a "really calm fashion", he said.



The National Transportation Safety Board said it was investigating the incident.

President Donald Trump was briefed on the incident and tweeted that his thoughts and prayers were with the victims.

South Carolina senator Tim Scott wrote on Twitter: "My prayers are with the families of those killed in the train crash in Lexington County this morning, and hoping for the best for all those injured. South Carolina is with you all!"

Concerns about safety standards on the US rail network have been raised after a number of fatal train crashes in recent years:
- February 2018: Crozet, Virginia. A lorry driver died after his vehicle hit a chartered Amtrak train carrying Republican lawmakers, including House Speaker Paul Ryan
- December 2017: Seattle, Washington. Three people killed when a passenger train plunged off a bridge after hitting a 30mph (50km/h) curve at 80mph
- March 2017 - Biloxi, Mississippi. Four people died when the bus they were travelling in got stuck on train tracks and was hit by a freight train
- May 2015 - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. A passenger train derailed, killing eight people
- January 2015 - Austin, Texas. A prison bus carrying 12 inmates and three officers skidded off a bridge and hit a freight train, killing 10 people on the bus
- December 2013 - The Bronx, New York City. Four people died when the driver of a passenger train fell asleep and the train took a 30mph curve at 82mph, then derailed



Re: "two dead" in railway accident, South Carolina, USA.
Posted by grahame at 21:36, 4th February 2018
 
From the BBC

South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster said the incident should "begin a conversation" about rail safety.

The conversation should have begun a long time ago ...

USA - railways, services and incidents (merged posts)
Posted by grahame at 19:43, 16th November 2018
 
From West Palm Beach TV  (my usual Friday evening channel - NOT) at https://www.wptv.com/news/state/brightline-virgin-form-strategic-partnership

Brightline, Virgin form strategic partnership; Brightline will be called Virgin Trains USA

Brightline has announced that it has formed a strategic partnership and trademark licensing agreement with the Virgin Group.

It says the agreement will establish a new brand and will rename itself Virgin Trains USA this month.

Virgin will make a minority investment in Brightline, which will still be managed and operated by Brightline’s executive team as well as affiliates of Fortress Investment Group, the rail service said.

“Virgin has built a respected and trusted brand in travel and hospitality.  With our shared focus on customer experience, powered by a culture of innovation and disruption, we are well positioned to build on our success," Brightline Chairman Wes Edens said in a statement.

Brightline is operating in Palm Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade counties and has been considering a stop on the Treasure Coast.

It also has plans to expand into Orlando and Tampa.

Another USA train wreck?
Posted by grahame at 20:16, 17th November 2018
 
From Sky News

Up to 30 carriages have fallen on to a highway in Georgia after a train derailed on a bridge, according to US authorities.

The entire population of Byromville - about 500 people - was evacuated following the accident, which happened at around 7am local time.

Operator CSX Railroad has confirmed that the train had 72 loaded carriages and 69 empty ones.

No injuries have been reported but several roads have been closed in the area, with traffic being diverted as police assess the damage.

I am translating from American as I read this and changing "Carriages" to "Wagons".

Re: Another USA train wreck?
Posted by Electric train at 20:26, 17th November 2018

Cost overrun of high sped line - California Style
Posted by grahame at 17:08, 27th November 2018
 
From Supply Management

A lack of contractor control has been blamed in an auditor’s report for California’s bullet train project seeing billions of dollars of cost overruns and significant delays.

In a report state auditor Elaine Howle said the California High‑Speed Rail Authority, in an effort to beat deadlines for spending federal grant funds, began awarding contracts long before it had finished planning or assessing potential risks to cost and schedule.

And a lack of oversight of contractors was firmly blamed for pushing up costs at the project which, while it has secured $28bn in funding, is now anticipated to cost a likely $77bn.

The train has been mooted as an alternative to expanding airports and building new freeways to meet growing demand, especially for travel between the state’s key areas such as Silicon Valley and the Central Valley as well as San Francisco and Los Angeles.

But delays and cost overruns have led to it being dubbed “the bullet train to nowhere”.

[Article Continues]

How do the California figures compare to major electrification and high speed projects in the UK ... in total terms, and in per-mid terms?

Re: Cost overrun of high sped line - California Style
Posted by Noggin at 22:56, 27th November 2018
 
From Supply Management

A lack of contractor control has been blamed in an auditor’s report for California’s bullet train project seeing billions of dollars of cost overruns and significant delays.

In a report state auditor Elaine Howle said the California High‑Speed Rail Authority, in an effort to beat deadlines for spending federal grant funds, began awarding contracts long before it had finished planning or assessing potential risks to cost and schedule.

And a lack of oversight of contractors was firmly blamed for pushing up costs at the project which, while it has secured $28bn in funding, is now anticipated to cost a likely $77bn.

The train has been mooted as an alternative to expanding airports and building new freeways to meet growing demand, especially for travel between the state’s key areas such as Silicon Valley and the Central Valley as well as San Francisco and Los Angeles.

But delays and cost overruns have led to it being dubbed “the bullet train to nowhere”.

[Article Continues]

How do the California figures compare to major electrification and high speed projects in the UK ... in total terms, and in per-mid terms?

Dunno but it was possibly not helped by the absence until recently of Federal standards for high-speed rail, which has perhaps had an impact, not to mention that there's no supply chain for such construction.

A more directly comparable project is the CalTrain modernisation/electrification - US$2bn for 82km of PTC and electrification, and a few new Stadler double-deck EMUs. Makes the GWML seem like a bargain, doesn't it?


A comparison (?) from Ohio
Posted by grahame at 05:18, 6th January 2019
 
Came across a series of interesting transport projects no longer in use ... including some that never made it into use, at Urban Ghost Media

Cincinnati seems an unlikely place for anything to be kept a secret, let alone the largest abandoned subway system in the United States. But that’s exactly what lurks beneath the streets of this inoffensive Ohio town: a vast network of abandoned tunnels and half-finished stations testifying to one of the city’s many long-lost dreams.

Cincinnati is a little larger than Plymouth and considerably smaller than Bristol ...

Re: A comparison (?) from Ohio
Posted by rogerpatenall at 09:48, 6th January 2019
 
Exploring Cincinnati early one morning, I found myself inside the massive Riverfront stadium. A Janitor came over to see who I was. "What's the capacity?" I asked. "Well" he replied. "When it's full, of course". Ask a silly question. . .

Re: A comparison (?) from Ohio
Posted by TaplowGreen at 10:04, 6th January 2019
 
Came across a series of interesting transport projects no longer in use ... including some that never made it into use, at Urban Ghost Media

Cincinnati seems an unlikely place for anything to be kept a secret, let alone the largest abandoned subway system in the United States. But that’s exactly what lurks beneath the streets of this inoffensive Ohio town: a vast network of abandoned tunnels and half-finished stations testifying to one of the city’s many long-lost dreams.

Cincinnati is a little larger than Plymouth and considerably smaller than Bristol ...

Don't tempt Tudor Evans.

Re: A comparison (?) from Ohio
Posted by Bmblbzzz at 11:21, 6th January 2019
 
Don't USA cities have a lot more autonomy, both in planning and finance, than their UK equivalents? It might be interesting to compare the geology as well.

Re: A comparison (?) from Ohio
Posted by ellendune at 18:18, 6th January 2019
 
Don't USA cities have a lot more autonomy, both in planning and finance, than their UK equivalents? It might be interesting to compare the geology as well.

Local Authorities almost everywhere have more more autonomy, both in planning and finance, than their UK equivalents!

I remember explaining to someone in a European local authority the powers of the Welsh Assembly (when it was first formed) and he was amazed that his local authority had more pwers than that!

Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by Lee at 08:34, 26th January 2019
 
Officials say the Solari board has grown obsolete. The removal is part of a modernization plan for the station - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-6634307/Last-stop-train-stations-flipping-departures-board.html

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by Red Squirrel at 11:10, 26th January 2019
 
Did anyone else detect a not-so-subtle bias in that article? The close-up photo shows departures running 3hrs and 90 mins late, whilst the wide shot shows a long list of trains that are 'On time' or 'Boarding'...

US cold "snap"
Posted by Clan Line at 11:18, 31st January 2019
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-47066018/polar-vortex-fire-used-to-melt-ice-on-chicago-train-tracks

Hope they haven't got creosoted wooden sleepers !

Re: US cold "snap"
Posted by broadgage at 12:20, 31st January 2019
 
It would never be allowed over here. The designer trainers worn by trespassers could be damaged !

We used to have gas heated points in the UK, and some may still exist, usually worked from propane bottles beside the track, but sometimes mains gas was used.
I don't recall the UK types producing large luminous flames, small blue flames that were not noticed unless specifically looked for.

Theft of the gas bottles was a major problem, or explosion thereof if fire broke out from some un-related cause.

Re: US cold "snap"
Posted by Bmblbzzz at 13:19, 31st January 2019
 
A quick google says the minimum temperature ever recorded in the UK was -27.2°C on 30 December 1995. Even -5 is rare enough. Somewhat different from Chicago.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by Bmblbzzz at 13:24, 31st January 2019
 
The second photo makes it look as if the board is obscuring the ornate columns (sorry, not sure if they're Corinthian, Ionic or Doric!) but from the third shot it's clear they're not. Anyway, my view is that it's just an information board and if there are now better ways of displaying that information (complying with the ADA) then the best place for fans of old tech to see the board is in a museum.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by grahame at 13:38, 31st January 2019
 
I confess - I'm sad to see the Solari / flipping boards go; I remember seeing them as a new wonder in Euston in - what - the 1960s, with the magic appearance of train as all the leaf sections in a column started to flip and in a handful of seconds most of them had stopped ... others carrying on till the column was complete leaving, magically, a complete train.   And then, as trains departed, the left most column cleared and each of the others moves / flipped up in turn.    I believe they replaced even older punched card / technical systems - vague recollections of those at Victoria, with a wooden walkway along the front, fenced off almost like a church pew in which the team operating the board scurried up and down pulling levels and placing cards to rotate slats showing station names high above to passenger looking for their trains.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by bobm at 14:52, 31st January 2019
 
I can remember watching them flipping over and catching a brief glimpse of a station name where regular services no longer called before settling on the correct information.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by Richard Fairhurst at 16:15, 31st January 2019
 
For those with a yen for such things, I built this a good few years ago: http://www.charlbury.info/departures/

It requires Flash so won't work on phones, and indeed most desktop browsers will be sniffy these days. Like the Philly one, it's due to be decommissioned in the next day or so. (I'm moving the Charlbury website to a new server.)

But there do appear to be a few open-source Javascript implementations - grahame, are you tempted to rig one up to your lovely new departure boards here? 

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by Red Squirrel at 16:45, 31st January 2019
 
...not sure if they're Corinthian, Ionic or Doric

Emphatically Corinthian.

I'll never forget walking into a London terminus some time in the early 80's, a little later and possibly worse for wear and tear than I should have been, and watching such a board tick a few times and then change from being full of detail that I had not had time to digest to completely and resolutely blank. Quite dispiriting.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by grahame at 17:37, 31st January 2019
 
For those with a yen for such things, I built this a good few years ago: http://www.charlbury.info/departures/

It requires Flash so won't work on phones, and indeed most desktop browsers will be sniffy these days. Like the Philly one, it's due to be decommissioned in the next day or so. (I'm moving the Charlbury website to a new server.)

Good luck with the move

But there do appear to be a few open-source Javascript implementations - grahame, are you tempted to rig one up to your lovely new departure boards here? 

Tempted ... but Javascript isn't my thing and I don't want to mix up the passenger-useful facilities in a heritage wrapper.  I would be more tempted to chain the departure boards, but really I have too much on my plate for the next three weeks.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by JayMac at 17:39, 31st January 2019
 
Emphatically Corinthian.

Yes, the column's capitals do suggest Corinthian. Which is a shame for my intended pun.

Isn't it Ionic? So sang Alanis Morrisette.

Re: US cold "snap"
Posted by ellendune at 19:34, 31st January 2019
 
We have the benefit that nowhere in the UK is very far from the sea, which removes some of the cold temperature extremes.


Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by stuving at 19:40, 31st January 2019
 
I was thinking about where I've seen any recently, and the obvious answer is France - SNCF made something of a feature of them in their stations, usually up on the wall over the door to the platforms. But I'm struggling to find out how many bigger ones have been removed so far - Montparnasse came down in 2017, St Lazare had a big renovation not long ago and I suspect lost its one, but Gare du Nord may well be there still (someone must have been there last year). I was sure Nantes still had one in September, but I find my memory was wrong again (and it would have gone once the current rebuild is finished anyway).

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by Surrey 455 at 22:37, 31st January 2019
 
I confess - I'm sad to see the Solari / flipping boards go; I remember seeing them as a new wonder in Euston in - what - the 1960s, with the magic appearance of train as all the leaf sections in a column started to flip and in a handful of seconds most of them had stopped ... others carrying on till the column was complete leaving, magically, a complete train.   And then, as trains departed, the left most column cleared and each of the others moves / flipped up in turn.    I believe they replaced even older punched card / technical systems - vague recollections of those at Victoria, with a wooden walkway along the front, fenced off almost like a church pew in which the team operating the board scurried up and down pulling levels and placing cards to rotate slats showing station names high above to passenger looking for their trains.

My memories as a youngster were mainly at Heathrow T1 & T2 departures and a vague memory (possibly imagined) at Paddington station.

Re: US cold "snap"
Posted by Surrey 455 at 23:21, 31st January 2019
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-47066018/polar-vortex-fire-used-to-melt-ice-on-chicago-train-tracks

Hope they haven't got creosoted wooden sleepers !

Not sure about the US but creosote is now a banned product in the UK. An EU directive I seem to recall. When used to protect sheds and fences the toxic chemicals seep into the soil, into your vegetables, then onto your dinner plate. Lovely.

Re: US cold "snap"
Posted by JayMac at 05:58, 1st February 2019
 
Creosote was banned for sale to the general public for amateur DIY use, across the EU, in 2003. Legislation that the UK government was a signatory to. It remains legal to use by professionals and industry. It is primary UK legislation that now controls its use.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by Reginald25 at 07:08, 1st February 2019
 
I still think the Solari indicators allowed the hurrying commuter a faster appreciation of when the next train to the required destination was running and which platform. I specially remember the board at Paddington when commuting from Reading in the 70s.
That said, the mechanical innards must have been a nightmare (and costly) to maintain, whereas the modern ones are throwaway modules.
Perhaps the NRM should have a section of a display, now they are 'history'.
Incidentally I'm old enough to remember the slot in destination boards at the ticket barrier at Welling, Kent, in the 60s.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by Bmblbzzz at 08:48, 1st February 2019
 
It's a shame the linked article didn't say in what way they fail to meet the Americans with Disabilities Act and how the new display will comply. I imagine it might be by providing some sort of audio link for the blind via Bluetooth or wifi, but it might be something else completely. It would also be informative to know if similar facilities are required under UK legislation and how they are provided.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by martyjon at 09:40, 1st February 2019
 
....  Incidentally I'm old enough to remember the slot in destination boards at the ticket barrier at Welling, Kent, in the 60s.

Yea, I remember them too but they were on the platforms at Bristol Temple Meads INCLUDING the blank one where the platform staff would chalk up with the destinations where they didn't have a specific one. I also remember the boards above the carriage windows showing the destinations including the named express title on titled trains.

There was a wooden destinations board at Bath Green Park which sadly was already out of service during my visits to that station and I was surprised at the number of destinations that were served from there besides Bournemouth West.  Broadstone, Templecombe, Evercreech Junction, Bristol Temple Meads, Gloucester Eastgate, Cheltenham Lansdown Road, Birmingham New Street, Manchester Mayfield, Sheffield Midland, Leeds City, Mangotsfield, Clifton Down,  Avonmouth Docks to name a few I remember. I have never found a photograph of the board so if any forum member has one or can point me to a link to one I'd be more than grateful.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by JayMac at 13:17, 1st February 2019
 
Destination/calling point finger boards were in use well into the 1980s at Taunton, and if my memory serves me correctly, in use at Weston-super-Mare into the 21st century.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by Surrey 455 at 10:54, 2nd February 2019
 
Destination/calling point finger boards were in use well into the 1980s at Taunton, and if my memory serves me correctly, in use at Weston-super-Mare into the 21st century.

Also still being used in the early 90s at Ealing Broadway

Re: New dog rule on New York Subway
Posted by grahame at 18:43, 9th April 2019
 
From The Guardian

'That's not a bag': man with dog bends New York subway rule and gets denied

MTA rules state dogs must be ‘enclosed in a container’ but one conductor seems to think a dog in a sack pushes that definition

In 2016, the Metro Transit Authority (MTA) in New York banned people from bringing their pets on the subway. The only exception was for animals “enclosed in a container and carried in a manner which would not annoy other passengers”.

But New Yorkers love a loophole, and so while the MTA probably meant dogs carried in purpose-built crates, subway riders quickly got inventive with tote bags and rucksacks – pushing the law to its high-fashion limits.

On Friday, however, a man found that he couldn’t quite squeeze his dog through the loophole. He was filmed by journalist Will Sabel Courtney on the subway platform at Carroll Street in Brooklyn, arguing with a train conductor about whether he was allowed to bring his dog onboard. The dog was in a burlap sack, which the man was able to hoist over his shoulder as if it was just another New Yorker tote, but the driver felt there wasn’t enough material to call it a bag.

Re: New dog rule on New York Subway
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 00:49, 10th April 2019
 
Cue Finn. 


Re: New dog rule on New York Subway
Posted by JayMac at 02:41, 10th April 2019
 
I've asked him.

Finn has no plans to ride the New York subway anytime soon.

Two and a half hours to Washington
Posted by grahame at 15:58, 26th July 2019
 
From Business Traveller

Amtrak to launch nonstop Acela service between New York and Washington DC

Rail travellers will soon be able to get from midtown Manhattan to the heart of Washington DC in just over two and a half hours.

Amtrak announced this week the launch of Acela Nonstop, using its high-speed, business-travel oriented trains to provide direct service between Penn Station in New York City and Washington Union Station, just a few block from the US Capitol.

The new service will begin on September 23, with weekday-only trains operating once daily from each of the nation’s two busiest rail terminals.

The southbound train will depart New York’s Penn Station at 0635 and is scheduled to arrive in Washington a 0910. The northbound train will depart Union Station at 1630, and arrive at Penn at 1905.

Reminds me of "three hours to Plymouth" ... the one crack train of the day. Historically, we had this with the "Cheltenham Spa Express" but such trains have now faded into the clock face for the most part, with a need to make best use of paths rather than clear out the line for the headliner.  Are we headed back for the one super-fast train in December? 

Re: Two and a half hours to Washington
Posted by JontyMort at 20:48, 3rd August 2019
 
From Business Traveller

Amtrak to launch nonstop Acela service between New York and Washington DC

Rail travellers will soon be able to get from midtown Manhattan to the heart of Washington DC in just over two and a half hours.

Amtrak announced this week the launch of Acela Nonstop, using its high-speed, business-travel oriented trains to provide direct service between Penn Station in New York City and Washington Union Station, just a few block from the US Capitol.

The new service will begin on September 23, with weekday-only trains operating once daily from each of the nation’s two busiest rail terminals.

The southbound train will depart New York’s Penn Station at 0635 and is scheduled to arrive in Washington a 0910. The northbound train will depart Union Station at 1630, and arrive at Penn at 1905.

Reminds me of "three hours to Plymouth" ... the one crack train of the day. Historically, we had this with the "Cheltenham Spa Express" but such trains have now faded into the clock face for the most part, with a need to make best use of paths rather than clear out the line for the headliner.  Are we headed back for the one super-fast train in December? 

To be fair to Amtrak, this service is at least new, as opposed to an accelerated existing train. At present - amazingly, to our eyes - the first usable train from NY to DC is at 0903, and the last Acela back from Washington is at 1550 (admittedly there are later Regional Expresses). The distance is equivalent to London to Darlington or Lancaster.

Re: Two and a half hours to Washington
Posted by grahame at 02:35, 4th August 2019
 
To be fair to Amtrak, this service is at least new, as opposed to an accelerated existing train. At present - amazingly, to our eyes - the first usable train from NY to DC is at 0903, and the last Acela back from Washington is at 1550 (admittedly there are later Regional Expresses). The distance is equivalent to London to Darlington or Lancaster.

Passenger trains between cities any sort of distance apart in the USA are few and far between - with this "North West Corridor" from Washington DC up to New York with service on to Boston being one of the few where there's anything like a service offering any choice of trains.   Albany to New York offers about a dozen trains a day as does San Diego to Los Angeles, but much more typical are cities far further apart and minimal service; the daily train (or eve trains on alternate days) is not uncommon, and certain lines such as Los Angeles to San Francisco have squeezed out the passenger trains completely from part(s) of the route - Thruway coaches take you from LA's Union Station to Bakersfield, then a train to near San Francisco and another road transfer in.  There is one train a day via the slower coast line which reduces you to one bus transfer but the direct line is at capacity with long fright trains and a path at speeds that would be required by passengers is not to be had.

Not amazing to my eyes ... but then I have been there and (at first) I was amazed.  Cars and flying have rendered the trains very much a minority way of getting between cities across most of the USA.

Re: Two and a half hours to Washington
Posted by JontyMort at 14:21, 4th August 2019
 
To be fair to Amtrak, this service is at least new, as opposed to an accelerated existing train. At present - amazingly, to our eyes - the first usable train from NY to DC is at 0903, and the last Acela back from Washington is at 1550 (admittedly there are later Regional Expresses). The distance is equivalent to London to Darlington or Lancaster.

Passenger trains between cities any sort of distance apart in the USA are few and far between - with this "North West Corridor" from Washington DC up to New York with service on to Boston being one of the few where there's anything like a service offering any choice of trains.   Albany to New York offers about a dozen trains a day as does San Diego to Los Angeles, but much more typical are cities far further apart and minimal service; the daily train (or eve trains on alternate days) is not uncommon, and certain lines such as Los Angeles to San Francisco have squeezed out the passenger trains completely from part(s) of the route - Thruway coaches take you from LA's Union Station to Bakersfield, then a train to near San Francisco and another road transfer in.  There is one train a day via the slower coast line which reduces you to one bus transfer but the direct line is at capacity with long fright trains and a path at speeds that would be required by passengers is not to be had.

Not amazing to my eyes ... but then I have been there and (at first) I was amazed.  Cars and flying have rendered the trains very much a minority way of getting between cities across most of the USA.

Indeed so. I'm currently having a lot of fun planning a trip next year - including the Lake Shore Limited and California Zephyr.

Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride
Posted by grahame at 03:33, 18th January 2020
 
From NPR

Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride

It costs just $16 to buy a one-way ticket on the Amtrak train from Chicago to Bloomington, Ill., unless you're the two people who use wheelchairs and tried to buy tickets recently. They were told their tickets will cost not $16 — but $25,000.

When Adam Ballard saw what Amtrak wanted to charge, he couldn't believe it.

"I thought it was a mistake. That's the price of a car," Ballard says. "How can that be possible? I was sure it was a mistake. But I've seen it in writing. So I know it's not."

Ballard works for a disability service and advocacy center in Chicago called Access Living. He is its housing and transportation policy analyst, and a group from his office is headed to Bloomington next Wednesday for a work retreat.

There are 10 of them, and five — including Ballard — use wheelchairs. Their train has three cars. Each car has one space for a wheelchair. That makes three spaces for five people in wheelchairs. In the past, when Access Living gave advance notice that it was sending a large group, Amtrak took out more seats to fit more wheelchairs. Once, it took out seats in the dining car and charged a few hundred dollars extra.

[snip]

On Dec. 30, an Amtrak agent for group sales based in Philadelphia wrote: "I received a cost regarding the removal of seats and I've been advised this will be over $25 K. Would you like for me to proceed with the request?"

Someone from the group wrote back: "Am I reading this correctly?"

The answer came back on Jan. 2. "The cost is correct," the agent wrote, citing a new policy for taking out those seats. The agent explained that it's expensive to take out extra seats and that it means taking a car out of service.

"With removal of seats, it can be quite costly," the agent wrote. "In previous years, the removal of seats from the coach cars incurred fees that Amtrak absorbed ... We understand and appreciate your loyalty with Amtrak. Going forward, we cannot continue to absorb these fees. These polices have changed nationwide as of 2019."

[Article continues]

Re: Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride
Posted by rogerw at 11:44, 18th January 2020
 
Bad as that is, I wonder what the response would have been in this country as few, if any, trains have space for 5 wheelchairs

Re: Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride
Posted by TaplowGreen at 17:52, 18th January 2020
 
Bad as that is, I wonder what the response would have been in this country as few, if any, trains have space for 5 wheelchairs

I guess the question is, does it constitute a "reasonable adjustment"?

Re: Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride
Posted by PhilWakely at 18:27, 18th January 2020
 
Bad as that is, I wonder what the response would have been in this country as few, if any, trains have space for 5 wheelchairs

A couple of years back, my nephew and several friends wanted to cycle the Devon 'Coast to Coast' path, starting at Plymouth. They were obviously unable to book all their bikes on the same service. It was suggested - and accepted - that they booked their bikes on following services and meet up at Plymouth. Not quite the same as a group of wheelchair users, but probably the best way forward depending upon the occasion.

Re: Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride
Posted by Richard Fairhurst at 18:33, 18th January 2020
 
A less frequent service between Chicago and Bloomington than between Barnstaple and Plymouth, though!

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/timetables/Illinois-Missouri-Services-Schedule-091317.pdf

USA - railways and incidents (merged posts)
Posted by grahame at 21:39, 18th February 2020
 
From the Daily Mail

POMPANO BEACH, Fla. (AP) - One person died Tuesday morning when a car was hit by a high speed train in South Florida, officials said.

The Brightline train, which operates between Miami and West Palm Beach, struck the car at an intersection in Pompano Beach about 10:12 a.m. Tuesday, said sheriff's spokeswoman Gerdy St. Louis. One person was confirmed dead.

Witnesses to the crash said the vehicle went around the guard rails, a Brightline spokesman told The Associated Press.

More than 40 people have been killed by the train, which travels at speeds up to 79 mph (127 kph) through some of Florida's most densely populated cities, according to records. An analysis of data by The Associated Press in December found the death rate is about one for every 29,000 miles (47,000 kilometers) the trains have traveled, which is the worst per-mile death rate of the nation's 821 railroads.

A sobering statistic ... has me wondering what the UK figure is.  Noting the figure quoted relates to all deaths and not just passenger deaths which are minuscule in the overall total.

Re: USA / Railroad death rate
Posted by eightf48544 at 10:37, 19th February 2020
 
Does it include staff deaths?

Re: USA / Railroad death rate
Posted by TonyK at 11:01, 20th February 2020
 
I've had a look at ORR's statistics for 2018-19. From these, we see that:
  • the total number of kilometres travelled by trains (national rail network and London Underground) was 150,500,000. This represented 142m Km passenger and 8.5m Km freight.
  • the total number of fatalities was 331. This represented 2 workforce, 17 passengers (13 national rail, 4 London Underground, none as a result of an accident on a train as a passenger), 10 accidents to other members of the public and 302 suicides or apparent suicides.

To give the UK equivalent of the Florida statistic, there is one fatality on average every 454,683 Km (282,527 miles) travelled by a train. Taking suicides from the calculation, there is one death every 5,189,655 Km (3,224,702 miles). That makes the incidence around a tenth of the Florida number if suicides are included or less than one percent if they are not.

2018/19 was the 12th successive year without a single fatality of a passenger on a train on the national rail network or London Underground, the last being the Pendolino accident at Grayrigg.

Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board
Posted by JayMac at 03:18, 26th February 2020
 
Solari boards have also largely disappeared from airports too. One survivor, at Singapore Changhi Airport, is being decommissioned today, 26th February 2020.

News report, including video footage of the board on operation:

BBC News - Solari boards: The disappearing sound of airports
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51470599



How U.S. Public Transit Can Survive Coronavirus
Posted by grahame at 09:05, 27th April 2020
 
A view from City Lab - posted to The Coffee Shop because there are many global lessons and suggests.    What will work for Sacramento may work for Bristol.  What will work for Baton Rouge may work for Bath.

Subway and bus systems in the U.S. face financial peril as ridership collapses due to lockdowns. To keep transit alive, here’s a playbook for immediate and long-term fixes.

Public transportation has been in a state of crisis since the coronavirus pandemic began. Ridership in major cities in the U.S., Europe and China is down by 50-90% from pre-crisis levels. ...

[snip]

But there is a way forward. We offer these pathways for saving transit, immediately and into the future.

What to do now

[snip]

What to plan over the next year

[snip]

Short-term cuts deployed to save transit agencies money during a crisis should not become permanent once the crisis is over.

[snip]

Big, structural change is needed

[snip]

As transit agencies struggle to find their footing in an uncertain future with dramatically less revenue from the usual sources, it’s time to rethink how transit agencies operate and are funded. If agencies reassess their priorities and push forward ambitious plans to reorient cities around their systems, with the assistance of the federal government, buses and subways can thrive when the country is ready to return to regular service.

 
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