How (possible) fare evaders are dealt with north of the border.

[whole diary]

[EBrown]

BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16177725

There is also a video from the "victim" on the above article.

A complaint has been made to police against a passenger who threw a "fare-dodger" off a train after he refused the conductor's request to leave.

Alan Pollock's action against Sam Main on the Edinburgh to Perth train on Friday was filmed by another passenger.

British Transport Police would not confirm who had made the complaint.

Mr Main, a 19-year-old student from Falkirk, claimed he had mistakenly bought the wrong ticket and was hoping to explain it to the conductor.

He told BBC Radio Scotland's Call Kaye programme: "I was given no time to explain myself. It wasn't even an argument.


A complaint is made to the police about a passenger who threw a suspected "fare-dodger" off a train
"There was a discussion with me trying to explain myself for about a minute and then the conductor started shouting at me," he said.

"I never seen his face, I never seen a man. He never approached me. He never said 'right son get off the train'.

"He grabbed me from behind, threw me to the ground on the train. Then picked me up off the ground on the train. Then threw me to the ground on the platform."

Mr Main told BBC Scotland he had tried to get back on the train to get his bag - which contained his phone, exam notes and headphones - but was prevented from doing so by Mr Pollock.

He also said he was diabetic, had not eaten much all day and had not slept the night before because he had been studying.

"[This] had perhaps quite an adverse effect on my mood and my mannerisms at that time, but still I don't condone the way I spoke to the conductor," he said.

Applause
The student admitted he had been drinking before the incident, but said he was not drunk.

The footage, filmed by passenger Ian Hems and uploaded to YouTube, shows a youth refusing to pay for his ticket or get off the train.

A man then gets up, grabs the youth and appears to throw him onto the platform at Linlithgow, West Lothian.

The man then twice stops the teenager getting back on the train before returning to his seat to a round of applause from passengers.

But one woman is heard to say: "There's no need for that."

A spokesman for British Transport Police said: "A complaint has been received and inquiries are ongoing into the incident."

[JayMac]

What Sam Main had to say about his 'experience' on Facebook:



At the moment Sam Main's Facebook page is viewable by anyone with a FB account. Reading his 'Wall' posts is quite enlightening:

https://www.facebook.com/sammain16?sk=wall

 

[ellendune]

A differnt slant on this from the Telegraph.  Not a paper normally read by "raging lefties".

The video has been viewed almost a million times but the ^star^ of the show, the big man, now faces a possible assault charge. The boy claims he suffered cuts and bruises ^ he is but a poor innocent diabetic who had been sold two tickets in the same direction by mistake. Boo hoo, smirk many. Let us play the smallest violin in the world. Their sympathies lie with Alan Pollock ^ for it is he who is now likely to end up in court, not the teenager who effed and blinded and refused to abide by the rules of the railway.
 
But by pitching the vigilante against the fare-dodger, I feel we are ignoring the real problem: the ticket inspector. Mr Main may have uttered a few expletives, but he was hardly violent, so why did the railway worker insist on the extreme action of not moving the train, to the detriment of everybody else on it? Why didn^t he extract the boy^s address, or get officials to meet them at the other end? Why did a member of the public have to get involved at all, potentially turning an unpaid ^5.10 ticket into a costly assault trial?

It^s down to the ridiculous travel regulations printed in tiny letters on the back of your ticket, which make it invalid on wet and windy Thursdays and the first and last Saturday of the month. The complete inflexibility of railway companies has sucked all common sense out of the people who staff trains.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/8956985/Rail-inspectors-dont-know-how-to-handle-fare-dodgers.html

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Sam Sugarfree Main
notify the weed man, tell him have it in stock
Share ^ 28 November at 19:09 via Mobile ^ 

explains the lack of ticket possibly?

[inspector_blakey]

Looking like this story has legs and may well be running for a while - it will be interesting to see what ends up happening... I suspect that if Alan Pollock does find himself on the wrong end of legal proceedings he is likely to be deluged with offers of support, including quite possibly lawyers prepared to take on the case pro bono. In fact, Ian Hems who took the video mentions in one of the articles liked to above that a lawyer on-board the train handed his card to Pollock and the conductor.

[JayMac]

I suspect that the Procurator Fiscal will decide that it would not be in the public interest to prosecute should any charges be brought.

Seeing the story develop I'm beginning to side more with Sam Main. I don't condone his language in the clip (even though that wasn't really threatening or personally abusive) but for a ticket irregularity it is simply not on for a fellow passenger to pick someone up and throw them off the train. Nor should the guard have allowed Mr Pollock to intervene.

When I and a fellow passenger dealt with a drunk and abusive person on a bus we did so because of explicit threats to do harm to a female passenger. Throwing this guy off was, to my mind, justified and justifiable. I don't see it as the same in the case of Sam Main. The ticket irregularity could've and should've been dealt with far less confrontationally.

[inspector_blakey]

That said, it would appear that the video does not show the whole situation. The person who filmed the confrontation has been on breakfast TV and elsewhere stating that the conductor was faced with five or ten minutes of abuse before the clip starts, and that in his opinion the conductor did everything right.

[JayMac]

That's interesting. And if that is indeed the case I wonder how Scotrail feel about the conductor delaying the service for 5 or 10 minutes when the normal course of action is to take details for a UPFN^▸ (Un Paid Fare Notice (used on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)))) and/or call BTP^▸ (British Transport Police). Doubly so if Sam Main was being abusive for '5 or 10 minutes'.

That aside I still don't see Mr Pollock's actions as justified. There wasn't an immediate threat to life and limb, no-one has stated that Sam Main made any threatening remarks or was showing signs of aggression.

[Ollie]

That's interesting. And if that is indeed the case I wonder how Scotrail feel about the conductor delaying the service for 5 or 10 minutes when the normal course of action is to take details for a UPFN^▸ (Un Paid Fare Notice (used on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)))) and/or call BTP^▸ (British Transport Police). Doubly so if Sam Main was being abusive for '5 or 10 minutes'.

That aside I still don't see Mr Pollock's actions as justified. There wasn't an immediate threat to life and limb, no-one has stated that Sam Main made any threatening remarks or was showing signs of aggression.

Is being abusive not a sign of aggression?

[JayMac]

Is being abusive not a sign of aggression?

During the clip I saw no evidence that Sam Main was being abusive. He used a couple of swear words whilst arguing his position. I don't condone that but it may possibly have been borne out of frustration that he wasn't being believed that he may've been sold incorrect tickets.

Let me be clear, I don't condone Sam Main's use of swear words. But he wasn't being threatening or aggressive as far as I can see. I think it highly unlikely he was being so before the recording started and then calmed down and was just a bit sweary once the video started. We see the conductor being confrontational and Sam Main responds in kind but with a couple of expletives.

Al that said, Sam Main is doing himself few favours in apparently reveling in the fleeting bit of fame this incident has afforded him.

In fact no one comes out of this particularly well. Not Sam, not the conductor, not the uploader and to my mind least of all Alan Pollock.

Finally, and the last thing I'm going to say on this subject: Teenagers, particular males, have been confrontational in the face of authority since the ascent of man. It's an evolutionary trait.

[Btline]

The reactions of the other passengers should be considered. Some commuters were shouting "get off". Others saying that they didn't want to sit there all night. When the guy was thrown onto the platform, a woman can be heard saying "there's no need for that". The children seem distressed and their mother looks very angry! Surely these people could back the big man up and thus should be interviewed by the police.

The guard also tried to calm the situation down by getting the doors shut. This was good.

[tramway]

We were informed by the guard this morning that there would be a slight delay at BoA^» (Bradford-on-Avon - next trains) whilst a non paying passenger was dealt with. Unfortunately not in the carriage I was in as I might have been able to provide a bit more detail.

I'm sure more than a few passengers were aware of the Scottish incident and seemed quite content that they had been informed. In the event the delay was minimal.

[Btline]

Looks like the guard may get sacked and the Big Man charged.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075258/Hounding-class-hero-The-banker-threw-foul-mouthed-student-train-end-court.html

 

At least someone speaks sense: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2075291/Fare-dodgers-dad-goes-right-rails.html

[thetrout]

Something that just caught my eye... My emphasis in bold

But the events aboard the 9.33pm commuter train mean his future is also in jeopardy: Alan Pollock^s father this week questioned whether Sam should be allowed to remain on his surveying degree course at Heriot-Watt University, where he is in his second year.

I'm sorry, but I think Alan Pollock's Father needs a serious reality check here...! What is essentially (IMO^▸ (in my opinion)) a fairly minor incident, should have no reflection on Sam's education status. Whilst I don't condone the use of language, It seems pretty spiteful to want to ruin someone's education for what could be deemed as a "Parking Ticket" offence. I'm sorry, but I know ALOT of students who have previous convictions for things in their teens which has no affect on their University status. We need to look at the wider picture here (I stress that I don't condone this type of behavior) and realise that people are not perfect.

One other thing, I'm sure many a student has sworn at an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) when they were caught not paying the fare. We don't hear about it, but it definitely happens!

[Btline]

It's easy to think this to be a one off incident. But it must happen every day - just not get filmed and put on YouTube.

I bet EVERYONE involved wished it wasn't on YouTube. Has it done anyone any good? If it was not online then the guard's job would be safe, Big Man would not be facing an assault charge and Sam Main would have just been chucked off and not be taking further action. His reputation would also remain intact!

It's ok for the DM to support the Big Man, but they've fuelled Sam Main to retaliate.

What do you think will be the outcome?