Severn Tunnel Action Group Call For Better Connections From Bath

[whole diary]

[Lee]

Thankyou , grahame.

I should also point out that Severn Tunnel Action Group welcomed the pre - martyjon forum inputs , and have amended their article to remove the inaccuracies (link below.)
http://www.saveseverntunnel.co.uk/issues.htm

martyjon mentioned the Ashchurch petition. It now has over 200 signatures , the vast majority of which (I am told) could be described as local (link below.)
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ashchurchtrains/

[Tim]

My view on service frequency is that if you are going to bother keeping a station open it deserves a reasonably frequent service.  If a station doesn't have enough passengers to justify a frequent service then unless there are exceptional circumstances (such a poor road connections) the public would be better served with a more frequent bus service.  Trains ought to be used to do what they are best at, moving a large number of passengers from a to b, and not be used to achive what other modes could do better.  Otherwise you still have a fixed cost of maintaining the station but that fixed cost is spread over fewer passengers.  Running a train but not stopping it at stations is even more poor value because you have the fixed costs of hiring and manning the train but  you neglect to pick up potential passengers who could share that cost.  If you could pick up just a few dozen extra passengers a day you would have an economic case for stopping the service (so long as existing passengers are not detered by the extra stops)

A station like Severn Tunnel Junction is never going to be as busy as paddington or Bristol Parkway but it has a large car park which means it is fairly well used for commuting into both Newport/Cardiff and Bath/Bristol.  it therefore deserves a more frequent service than it currently has. 

I know that the downside of stopping at every station is that journey times are increased but we have some rumours that class 170s might be deployed on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route.  In another topic on this forum I had suggested that the faster 170s be used to be reduce journey times only to get some information on line speeds from someone who knows more about the railway than me which suggests that because 75mph is the maximum speed in many areas faster speeds are unlikely to be possible without infracstructure upgrades.   But I bet that if you replaced all the trains on the route with 170s, you could stop all of the trains at STJ^▸ (Severn Tunnel Junction railway station) and Keynsham and use the superiour acceleration of the 170s to match today's journey times. 

Whilst I am dreaming, it would be nice to see STJ's carpark extended and it marketed as a park and ride station. 

[Lee]

A comprehensive Severn Tunnel Action Group update can be found in the link below.
http://www.saveseverntunnel.co.uk/campaign%20updates.htm

[Jim]

A station like Severn Tunnel Junction is never going to be as busy as paddington or Bristol Parkway but it has a large car park which means it is fairly well used for commuting into both Newport/Cardiff and Bath/Bristol.  it therefore deserves a more frequent service than it currently has. 

The car park is full most weekdays actually!

[Lee]

If a station doesn't have enough passengers to justify a frequent service then unless there are exceptional circumstances (such a poor road connections) the public would be better served with a more frequent bus service.  Trains ought to be used to do what they are best at, moving a large number of passengers from a to b, and not be used to achive what other modes could do better.

Leaving aside the moral question of whether it is right to withdraw services from such stations , here are two examples of why I disagree with the above quote :

1) The longer journey times that tend to result from bustitution (example below.)



grahame's Wiltshire Travel Game is an interesting variation on this theme (link below.)
http://www.wellho.net/demo/game01.php

2) Extensive research shows that people dont see the bus as being as attractive a public transport option as the train. Therefore , if rail is not available as an option , a significant number of passengers are likely to use their cars rather than the bus. This would inevitably lead to a rise in congestion levels in areas such as Greater Bristol.

This is especially relevant in todays world , but Beeching also remarked on similar issues in 1963 :

"It might pay to run railways at a loss in order to prevent the incidence of an even greater cost which would arise elsewhere if the railways were closed. Such other costs may be deemed to arise from congestion, provision of parking space, injury and death, additional road building, or a number of other causes."

That said , I think that the broad thrust of Tim's post is both interesting and valid. We looked at similiar issues during the drafting stage of our Gateway To The Future proposals. Examples can be found in the links below.
http://www.shinewithstyle.co.uk/literature/Suggested%20Portsmouth%20-%20Rhoose%20timetable.pdf

http://www.shinewithstyle.co.uk/literature/Suggested%20Weymouth%20-%20Severn%20Beach%20timetable.pdf

http://www.shinewithstyle.co.uk/literature/Draft%20Greater%20Bristol%20Metro%20Proposals.pdf

http://www.shinewithstyle.co.uk/literature/melksham%20new%202007%20timetable%20proposals.pdf

http://www.shinewithstyle.co.uk/literature/Draft%20Bicester%20-%20Bristol%20timetable.pdf

As is the case with all such initial optioneering , some of the train paths used in the above were found not to be feasible. We have aimed to correct this in the final version of Gateway To The Future (link below.)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=357.msg1034#msg1034

However , development of Gateway To The Future is an ongoing process , and we welcome all constructive comments and suggestions.

[Lee]

There is a further STAG^▸ (Severn Tunnel Action Group) press release for me to report (he said , bracing himself......) :

"- Severn Tunnel Junction rail passengers hit by cuts to Bath Spa

- Reduced service threatens Christmas shoppers

- Commuters forced onto the roads

Christmas shoppers and regular commuters will have to find alternative routes to Bath when First Great Western introduces their revised train timetable on 9th December.

The train company has decided to withdraw through train service between Severn Tunnel Junction and Bath. This decision comes despite a huge rise year on year in journeys and ticket sales between STJ^▸ (Severn Tunnel Junction railway station) and Bath Spa.

Talking about the cuts, David Flint, Chairman of Severn Tunnel Action Group (STAG) said "Bath is the second most popular destination for eastbound travellers from Severn Tunnel Junction. It is used by commuters, students and throughout the day by shoppers. In the past twelve months we have seen ticket sales increase by 39% on this route. These cuts just don^t make sense.^

We spoke to Lucy-Jane Cypher, one of an estimated 26 regular commuters from Severn Tunnel Junction to Bath. Lucy-Jane, Media Officer for STAG, fears she will have to abandon the train and buy a car when the new timetable is introduced on the 9 December.

Talking about the change she said "I finish work in Bath around 6 o^clock and the best train back to Severn Tunnel is currently the 1803 which gets me back to Severn Tunnel Junction at 18.50.

^From 9 December I will be forced to change trains at Bristol Temple Meads as the revised 18.06 from Bath no longer stops at Severn Tunnel Junction. From that date I will have to wait in Bristol for the Arriva Cross-Country train which will get me back to Severn Tunnel Junction at 19.47 This is, in effect, a doubling in the time it will take me to get home, from just 47 minutes to one hour forty one minutes travelling time.

^The alternative is for me to plead with my management to let me go in time to catch the 18.00. The problem with this train is that there is only going to be a four minute connection at Bristol Temple Meads. So, if the incoming train is late, which, judging by current performance will be pretty often, I'm going to be running between platforms at Bristol. If I fail to make the connection, I^ll get home two hours after I finish work!^

Lucy-Jane continued ^It's a shame as there's already enough traffic on the roads between South Wales and Bath. If I'm going to get home in time to enjoy my evenings, I'm going to have to abandon the train.^

Commuters will suffer from the train cuts. Although there are some direct services at peak times, there will be no through commuter trains from Bath Spa to Severn Tunnel Junction between 17.35 and 21.35. The trains that will operate will be hourly services requiring a change at Bristol, with a minimum wait of about half an hour for the connection.

Last year the Severn Tunnel Action Group successfully campaigned to have two morning and evening commuter trains to Bristol re-instated. From

9 December these trains, being the 06.55 and 07.55 to Bath, and the 16.35 and 17.35 from Bath, will be the only through trains.

Last December 16 trains a day, one third of the services between Severn Tunnel Junction and Bristol and Bath, were withdrawn following the decision to axe the Cardiff to Portsmouth trains from stopping at Severn Tunnel Junction.

In STAGs response to the proposed changes they say they specifically asked First Great Western to ensure the service leaving Bath on the hour would continue to connect with the onward services to Wales. This has not happened so not only are the through trains lost but there are no connections at Bristol.

But STAG tell us that there is also some good news for rail travellers. In Arriva Trains Wales^ new timetable, and starting in December, services through Severn Tunnel Junction, Chepstow and Lydney will now go all the way to Cheltenham Spa. Here, they say, there will be excellent connections for onward travel to Birmingham and the north. Cheltenham Spa will also provide shoppers with a good alternative to Bath.

In addition, they say, travel between Severn Tunnel Junction and Cheltenham will be quicker than travelling to Bath Spa. The STAG representative thought it will be interesting to see if Cheltenham takes over from Bath as the most popular shopping destination."

For more info or to give STAG your comments on the above press release , contact them at info@saveseverntunnel.co.uk

[Jim]

^From 9 December I will be forced to change trains at Bristol Temple Meads as the revised 18.06 from Bath no longer stops at Severn Tunnel Junction. From that date I will have to wait in Bristol for the Arriva Cross-Country train which will get me back to Severn Tunnel Junction at 19.47 This is, in effect, a doubling in the time it will take me to get home, from just 47 minutes to one hour forty one minutes travelling time.

Or they could always leave later and have a shorter journey time!

[Lee]

^From 9 December I will be forced to change trains at Bristol Temple Meads as the revised 18.06 from Bath no longer stops at Severn Tunnel Junction. From that date I will have to wait in Bristol for the Arriva Cross-Country train which will get me back to Severn Tunnel Junction at 19.47 This is, in effect, a doubling in the time it will take me to get home, from just 47 minutes to one hour forty one minutes travelling time.

Or they could always leave later and have a shorter journey time!

Which would still mean hanging around at her place of work and at Temple Meads? Remember , she currently has a direct service that gets her back almost an hour earlier.

[Shazz]

Or they could get a train and get a connection there, and they'd have a 15 min wait tops, as the connections they have are farely awesome via newport...

clearly thats far to obvious a choice for STAG^▸ (Severn Tunnel Action Group) to take!

[Lee]

1) She finishes work at 1800. According to National Rail Enquiries her first option is 1900 (an hour after she finishes work) to Bristol Temple Meads , a 10 minute wait at Bristol Temple Meads (still "hanging around" compared to no change at all currently) then 1925 to Severn Tunnel Junction arriving at 1947 (57 minutes later than currently.)

2) I gave forum members the STAG^▸ (Severn Tunnel Action Group) e-mail address for a reason.......

[Jim]

2) I gave forum members the STAG^▸ (Severn Tunnel Action Group) e-mail address for a reason.......

Who said we were blaming you for the fraud article (yet again) written by a bunch of muppets who must catch 1 train at the precise time they finish work

[John R]

Muppets who managed to get their peak hour service restored to half hourly much quicker than most other campaigns have achieved any results - and from a standing start too. Let's try and keep positive relations with groups that broadly want to achieve the same aims as we do.

The problem here is partly that within the space of a year FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have recast the connections at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) twice on the east-west and north -south axes. So all those that had a good through service a year ago found their journey disrupted and a goodly proportion will have made other arrangments. Just as new journey patterns are bedding in, it's all change again, so you end up with the worst of all worlds.

[Shazz]

And Muppets who can^t do the sensible thing and take a 10 minute train the opposite direction to get a connection...

Personally I think they need to broaden there horizon a lot and stop claiming the changing trains is an "issues".

if i had the kind of service at my local station (when im at home and not at uni) that they had, i'd be incredibly happy with what i've got.

[grahame]

Hey folks - you're getting a bit personal suggesting that people are muppets - it could be taken as an insult, even if you use it as a term of endearment within your own family. (There is something a bit loveable aboout Kermit after all!). PLEASE have a look at
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1067.0

I'm not sure whether the regular user would think of changing at Bath ...
a) is this what the timetable site suggests?
b) is that journey available at the same fare?

Let's look logically at this - the regular commuter needs to have a train that arrives (reliably) in time for work and leaves after work has been fully finished, and desires to have the train leave as late as possible from his/her home station in the morning and get back there as early as possible in the evening.  Changes of train are undesirable as they distrurb the journey, and under the current regime are liable to twice the cancellation risk and all too prone to delays of the first train missing the connection, or two possibilities of denied boarding due to overcrowding rather than just one.

Moving to a different line - a service where everyone is agreed that the current service is totally inappropriate ... Swindon to Melksham.   Let me compare 3 journeys as offered by the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) web site / phone enquiry team .... for a departure at 17:45 or just thereafter.


5th December.   Leave 18:42, into Melksham 19:08.
Train is really an hour too late, but journey time sensible

12th December. Leave 18:31, change at Bath and Trowbridge, Melksham at 19:47
Too long a journey time, train leaves too late, too much chance of missing connection, higher fare. Yuk. [Note - the enquiry team misses a direct train at 18:45 which is not on their system!]

27th December. Leave 18:35, change at Chippenham, Melksham at 19:54
Too long a journey, too long a wait at Chippenham (55 minutes), train leaves too late.


Jim - time spent by a car driver sitting in a jam is priced by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) at 44p per minutes ... bus and train passengers are given less value. But that's the sort of "price" you're looking at for delays back to home stations, or the needs for earlier starts.

[Jim]

Muppets who managed to get their peak hour service restored to half hourly much quicker than most other campaigns have achieved any results - and from a standing start too. Let's try and keep positive relations with groups that broadly want to achieve the same aims as we do.

The problem here is partly that within the space of a year FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have recast the connections at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) twice on the east-west and north -south axes. So all those that had a good through service a year ago found their journey disrupted and a goodly proportion will have made other arrangments. Just as new journey patterns are bedding in, it's all change again, so you end up with the worst of all worlds.

If I am honest, they should of kept the timetable with 1 TP2H from Tauton and 1 TP2H from Westbury, as it was back with Wessex IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly)