Use of English at the DfT

[whole diary]

[grahame]

The new Minister for Transport is a former English teacher.   Is it right for her to invest the department's resources into clearer and better use of English, or should she use those resources more directly to address transport issues?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2072524/Ms-Greening-Minister-Grammar-MP-sends-page-essay-telling-staff-write-letters.html

[eightf48544]

Interesting piece.

I'm in two minds about it. The civil service should write in plain English as they are suppose to be highly educated. So it could be said to be bit insulting for a minister to write a 5 page essay to tell them how to write letters.

Also a 5 page essay on the topic is far too long, nobodys going to read it in full.

I thought all civil servants were meant to read Fowler's English usage.

I well remember George Weedon Divisional Manager Central Divison SR^▸ (Southern Railway / Southern Region / Scot Rail / Scottish Region (rather confusing - it depends on the context)) in the mid sixties refufsing to read anything over one side of A4.

However, I'm more interested in what they write. If they put forward stupid ideas they it doesn't really matter if they are written in plain English or not. Except, maybe if they are in plain English people might actually spot it's a rubbish proposal. 

[Btline]

She is quite right in doing so IMO^▸ ('in my opinion'). Standards should be improved (or at least strived to be improved), and I agree with the removal of jargon.

If only this cannot be applied to station/train announcements. Perhaps that'll be next!

[paul7575]

If only this cannot be applied to station/train announcements. Perhaps that'll be next!

This will possibly offend the 'equal opportunities' brigade, but I reckon SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have made a big mistake with their 'non-standard' announcements.  The theory seems to be to use some different random employee to voice the upcoming weekend engineering work announcements, so that they sound different to the normal PIS^▸ (Passenger Information System) generated stuff done by the professional voice artists... 

But sometimes the accent is almost completely unintelligible - because the person just isn't suitable for public speaking.  Maybe they are trying to be fair and give everyone in the head office a chance on the recording system, but some of them ought to be banned...

Paul 

[TerminalJunkie]

I agree with the removal of jargon.

Then why did you use 'IMO^▸ ('in my opinion')'?

Standards should be improved (or at least strived to be improved)

You could improve your standards by not mixing up your tenses. IMO

If only this cannot be applied to station/train announcements.

Did you mean 'could be', perchance? 

[bigdaz]

As an educationalist, I believe upholding the English language and its correct usage is a fundamental, non-negotiable.  However, it has long since been that case that people either elected to the position of Member of Parliament or employed as a high-ranking civil servant would automatically be equipped to use language proficiently.  

Sadly, some universities are allowing degrees of  less academic rigour, which in turn is providing society with graduates who are less than conversant with the rules of grammar, proficient use of punctuation and a total disregard for spelling.  There was once a general understanding within society that a 'graduate' held an underlying grasp of language and its use... sadly this has diminished in many quarters.

[TerminalJunkie]

As an educationalist, I believe upholding the English language and its correct usage is a fundamental, non-negotiable.

A fundamental, non-negotiable what, exactly?

[Worcester_Passenger]

I well remember George Weedon Divisional Manager Central Divison SR^▸ (Southern Railway / Southern Region / Scot Rail / Scottish Region (rather confusing - it depends on the context)) in the mid sixties refusing to read anything over one side of A4.

One side of quarto or foolscap perhaps; alas, one side of A4 very unlikely in the mid-sixties.

[JayMac]

I agree with the removal of jargon.

Then why did you use 'IMO^▸ ('in my opinion')'?

From a fellow pedant:
'IMO' is not jargon. it's an acronym. 

I'd like to add my two penn'orth to this topic but I'm wary that I may mistype something and draw a further pedantic critique from TJ.   

[Chris from Nailsea]

From a fellow pedant:
'IMO^▸ ('in my opinion')' is not jargon. it's an acronym.

No, it's an initialism: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism 

[Chris from Nailsea]

... and in view of the generally light-hearted way this topic has developed, I've now moved it here to The Lighter Side ... 

[TerminalJunkie]

I'm wary that I may mistype something and draw a further pedantic critique from TJ.

I won't point out the absence of a capital letter at the start of one of your sentences, then. 

[bigdaz]

As an educationalist, I believe upholding the English language and its correct usage is a fundamental, non-negotiable.

A fundamental, non-negotiable what, exactly?

Within this sentence, the word fundamental is used as an adjective - to describe the noun.  Fundamental meaning basic.  The compound word - non-negotiable - is now in common parlance as a noun in its own right meaning something over which people will not compromise.  Finally, "A" is the indefinite article which precedes a noun.

[TerminalJunkie]

Within this sentence, the word fundamental is used as an adjective - to describe the noun.  Fundamental meaning basic.  The compound word - non-negotiable - is now in common parlance as a noun in its own right meaning something over which people will not compromise.  Finally, "A" is the indefinite article which precedes a noun.

Where were you taught to put a comma between an adjective and its object noun? Sidmouth College?

[bigdaz]

Indeed sir... I have to concede... there should not be a comma - it is misplaced within this sentence.