Poor rail conditions (28/11)

[whole diary]

[Jonathan H]

While the delays on the main line will probably take the headlines today, the accumulated delays on the North Downs Line tell a poor story this morning

At 0800

0624 Redhill to Reading - Wokingham, on time from Redhill, lost 13 minutes to Guildford, 20 minutes late at Wokingham
0721 Shalford to Reading - between Guildford and Wokingham, on time from Shalford, stuck behind above train
0700 Gatwick to Reading - Guildford, left Gatwick 5 minutes late, left Redhill 14 minutes late
0728 Redhill to Reading - Betchworth, left Redhill 24 minutes late after delay on 0554 from Reading

0634 Reading to Gatwick, terminated Redhill after losing time after North Camp, then by catching up 0554 at Dorking Deepdene
0704 Reading to Redhill, fast to Guildford, left Reading 38 minutes late after delay on journey to Reading, 14 late at Gatwick, 25 late at Guildford, 35 late at Wokingham
0734 Reading to Gatwick, left Reading 19 minutes late after getting caught behind train above.

All of this appears to be poor rail conditions.  Is the combination of light use, stopping trains and steep hills really an insurmountable problem?


Jonathan

[BerkshireBugsy]

While the delays on the main line will probably take the headlines today, the accumulated delays on the North Downs Line tell a poor story this morning

0634 Reading to Gatwick, terminated Redhill after losing time after North Camp, then by catching up 0554 at Dorking Deepdene
All of this appears to be poor rail conditions.  Is the combination of light use, stopping trains and steep hills really an insurmountable problem?

I was on the 0634 from Reading to Gatwick (my exit point is Reigate) and did wonder what was going on. There was an announcement on this service advising that we were behind a stopping train which I didn't understand at the time but this explains it.

[gaf71]

All of this appears to be poor rail conditions.  Is the combination of light use, stopping trains and steep hills really an insurmountable problem?


Jonathan

Not insurmountable, but for a couple of months each year, we do get problems caused by low rail adhesion. Leaf fall has been discussed elsewhere on this forum I believe, perhaps someone can point you in the right direction.

[adc82140]

I was told it was a signal failure and a broken down train by customer services. Needless to say once again I had to drive to Guildford. Just what I buy an annual season ticket for. The reliability of the north downs line has been shocking recently. I've not been on a train that's been less than 10 minutes late for weeks, yet I bet there's a way they can massage the figures so I get zero discount on next year's ticket. I have registered a complaint with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) about the useless CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) at Farnborough North that bears absolutely no resemblance to reality as well.

If the offer I've had of a parking space in Guildford next year comes good, it'll be farewell FGW for me.

[BerkshireBugsy]

I've not been on a train that's been less than 10 minutes late for weeks, yet I bet there's a way they can massage the figures so I get zero discount on next year's ticket.

On my "North Downs" leg of my daily journey the segment from Reading to Reigate (leaves Reading at 634am) and return journey (Leaves Reigate 1618) I have to say the departures are normally within a minute of advertised time as are the corresponding arrivals at the destination points.

The one service that does irritate me, however, is the 1736 service from Reading to Bristol Temple Meads via Newbury which very rarely seems to leave within 5 minutes of scheduled departure time.

[adc82140]

And herein lies the problem. I think most services do leave Reading on time, but have the uncanny ability to lose at least 5 minutes between Wokingham and Farnborough, and then another 5 or so from Farnborough to Guildford. My regular trains are the 08:00 Farnborough N to Guildford and the 17:44 Guildford to Farnborough. The 08:00 never arrives until at least 08:05, then waits another 4 or 5 minutes at North Camp while a load more people + Gatwick luggage try to squeeze on an already full train. The 17:44 is plagued by delays at Guildford- the preceding service is not scheduled to leave platform 8 until 17:40- this is always delayed waiting for clearance into the Guildford tunnel section- it's only a couple of minutes, but this is crucial. The 17:44 then has to wait for platform 8 to become available, and as such will lose its place in the tunnel section to the on-time 17:47 SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Waterloo service. Therefore the 17:44, once it is crush-loaded at Guildford, rarely leaves before 17:50.

They either need to allow extended dwell times in the timetable for crowded services, or run them with more appropriate rolling stock (on the occasions when these trains are 165 formed rather than 166, the crowding is so much less)

[adc82140]

and once again today it's all fallen apart. Some Reading bound services delayed or cancelled, the 0800 FNN to GLD running some 30 mins late. Have thrown breakfast down my throat and run to the station for the 0730. Lack of train crew seems to be today's excuse. This can't go on.

[Jonathan H]

Yes, but delays were rather more isolated to the 0434 RDG^‡(resolve)-GTW / 0556 GTW-RDG / 0734 RDG-GTW service this morning.  The return working left Redhill at 0644 stopping at Guildford and Reading only and the 0624 RDH-RDG was delayed at Guildford waiting for it to pass.  Everything else is close to time.  I see that the 0734 has now left Reading "fast" to Guildford.

The 0734 RDG-GTW is an inherently unreliable train because of the early start for its diagram and comparatively short turnarounds.  I thought this 12 years ago when I started travelling.  Unfortunately, the 0704 RDG-RDH is also an inherently unreliable train with its short turnaround at Reading.

Luckily for me, the 0634 RDG-GTW gets me to where I want to go efficiently (and I don't notice / mind when it picks up 10 minutes delay in the way I did when I caught the 0704 RDG-RDH).  I would have a quite different experience if I caught the later trains.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

Its not just the North Down line that is suffering. I travelled on the 17.31 2-car stopper from Oxford to Evesham yesterday and that train had great difficulty in getting away from several stations of which Kingham seemed to be the worse. We wondered if it would ever get going and the driver was trying real hard to cope with the slippery rail conditions.

[adc82140]

and everything's at least 15 down tonight. I'm off to Farnborough Main via Woking. my ticket isn't valid but quite frankly I don't care. they need to sort this out. May I suggest a leaf fall timetable for starters?

[Jonathan H]

I'd move the 0531 GTW-RDG^‡(resolve) earlier to try and make the 0704 RDG-RDH / 0833 RDH-RDG more reliable but I guess that increased schedules require more crew shift time. The 0434 RDG-GTW / 0556 GTW-RDG / 0734 RDG-GTW cycle is more difficult but key is surely finding a way of making the turnaround at Reading more robust so it doesn't end up behind the 0739 RDG-WAT. Hopefully the extra platforms at Reading will one day help with that.

I wonder if the 0556 GTW-RDG could go earlier if the unit overnight at Redhill was used for it and the unit off the 0434 worked the 0624 RDH-RDG in its place. This could then develop the leaf fall buffer for the 0734 from Reading.

But a leaf fall timetable doesn't work on those autumn days when there isn't a problem.  I'm aboard the 2318 GTW-RDG at Guildford and we've come from Reigate in 21 minutes - now sat waiting for 0002 to tick round.  Schedules which build too much in for poor conditions lead to waiting time somewhere on the good days.

[BerkshireBugsy]

The 634 Reading Gatwick service today (30th November) seemed to run OK until we left dorking deepene at which it seemed to struggle. Am I right in thinking that the run from Deepdene to Betchworth is uphill? Once we cleared that it seemed to be fine.

[adc82140]

20 minutes down this morning, according to Live Departure Boards. Farnborough North boards on the platfrom showing as on time. Why don't they just switch them off?

[Jonathan H]

The 634 Reading Gatwick service today (30th November) seemed to run OK until we left dorking deepene at which it seemed to struggle. Am I right in thinking that the run from Deepdene to Betchworth is uphill? Once we cleared that it seemed to be fine.

From my copy of Country Railway Routes: Guildford to Redhill by Vic Mitchell and Kevin Smith, the gradient profile suggests a ruling gradient of 1 in 125 then 1 in 116 on the climb from Dorking Deepdene to Betchworth.  The gradients between Chilworth and Dorking are about 1 in 96 or 1 in 100.


Jonathan