Chiltern Evergreen 3 project - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Closing date of the consultation is two days time, on Friday 26th

[paul7575]

Having noticed that short deadline, the 'industry briefing letter' does then explain that they aren't actually consulting anyone, it's just a joint NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/CR application direct to ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about).

Paul

[DidcotPunter]

Clearance work on the Oxford-Bicester line at the site of the junction for the new chord to the Chiltern line has now started.

http://www.buckinghamtoday.co.uk/news/business/work-steams-ahead-on-new-bicester-rail-link-1-5339538

Good news.

[chuffed]

If Chiltern....a much smaller company than FGW^▸ (First Great Western) ...can do all this in 3 years...why can't FGW do half the work in double the time on the Portishead line ?

[Btline]

Why? Because Chiltern need this link to improve profits (InterCity rail services can be profitable).

Portishead to Bristol will be a commuter route; commuter routes are almost always non profitable unless they are InterCity.

Until someone (i.e. the government aka the taxpayer) pays FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to run the services, they won't run them!

[John R]

If Chiltern....a much smaller company than FGW^▸ (First Great Western) ...can do all this in 3 years...why can't FGW do half the work in double the time on the Portishead line ?

Chiltern first announced the proposal in August 08, so it'll have taken around 7 years, or 8 by the time they reach Oxford. And that was with no question regarding the funding of the scheme - just the time taken to go through due process.

[Electric train]

If Chiltern....a much smaller company than FGW^▸ (First Great Western) ...can do all this in 3 years...why can't FGW do half the work in double the time on the Portishead line ?

It is also the way their 20 year franchise is set up.  Also Chiltern are part of a much larger company ........... DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about)

[ChrisB]

Their franchise was uniquely set up, in that the majority of what other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) are required to pay the Treasury for their franchise was instead required to be spent on their services & stations to improve their profitability.

Seems to have worked. Shame it wasn't seen as the way ahead for franchising

[Btline]

Yes, I really can't see why! Chiltern have completely transformed the route and are easily the most successful franchise.
They do have competition and clear aims. But the passenger growth from Solihull and Warwick Parkway just says it all. To grab regular commuters from Worcestershire and Shropshire from a single station is amazing.

Just think how good FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would be if the profits had been invested into the infrastructure, instead of stuffing "fat cat shareholders" and paying premiums to the gov (although the latter do I suppose get reinvested somewhere in rail). Instead the franchise gets stale, additional stops are added to InterCity services to cover stations which should have their own stopping service.

FGW have improved travel in the South West overall, but let's not forget the infamous "Son of Beeching" scandal, when massive service cuts were planned at the beginning of the franchise, the appalling conditions in the Bristol area which provoked two "Fare strikes" and the fact that FGW didn't hesitate to hand the keys back when they were given the opportunity!

[ellendune]

Just think how good FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would be if the profits had been invested into the infrastructure, instead of stuffing "fat cat shareholders" and paying premiums to the gov (although the latter do I suppose get reinvested somewhere in rail). Instead the franchise gets stale, additional stops are added to InterCity services to cover stations which should have their own stopping service.

You don't seem to get it.  Chiltern have been making profits (though the fat cats in this case are the German taxpayers).  The moneyy that Chiltern have been ploughing back is what would otherwise have gone to the the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) in premiums.

[TonyK]

Just think how good FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would be if the profits had been invested into the infrastructure, instead of stuffing "fat cat shareholders"

With the performance of the First Group shares since May, FGW shareholders are more probably emaciated moggy than fat cat.

[Southern Stag]

Just think how good FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would be if the profits had been invested into the infrastructure, instead of stuffing "fat cat shareholders" and paying premiums to the gov (although the latter do I suppose get reinvested somewhere in rail). Instead the franchise gets stale, additional stops are added to InterCity services to cover stations which should have their own stopping service.

As I recently pointed out in another thread neither First Group nor the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are making money from the FGW franchise.

[Network SouthEast]

You don't seem to get it.  Chiltern have been making profits (though the fat cats in this case are the German taxpayers).  The moneyy that Chiltern have been ploughing back is what would otherwise have gone to the the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) in premiums.

Chiltern aren't making any money at the moment either. DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) are indeed feeding back profits to Germany, but not from Chiltern!

[Btline]

You don't seem to get it.  Chiltern have been making profits (though the fat cats in this case are the German taxpayers).  The money that Chiltern have been ploughing back is what would otherwise have gone to the the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) in premiums.

Yes I do! I said that it would be good if FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s profits were driven back into the railway and not paid in premiums.

Chiltern aren't making any money at the moment either. DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) are indeed feeding back profits to Germany, but not from Chiltern!

Exactly, which brings us very nicely round to what started this conversation off.
Chiltern are opening the railway to Oxford in order to become more profitable. It is a lucrative market (especially Water Eaton Parkway).

That comment also shows the ridiculous fact that UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail passengers are currently funding the French, German and Dutch state railways!

[TonyK]

One could equally argue that the German, French and Dutch railways are subsidising the British railways, whilst the Spanish, Chinese, and even Canadian teachers' pension funds are ploughing billions into our airports.