Flybe (based at Exeter) and domestic air travel - ongoing discussion (merged topic)

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

For the very few heading that way, yes, it's better - but the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) was referring to London-Exeter return....

[chrisr_75]

Unsurprising frankly - why would *anyone* traipse all the way to LCY, go through security etc, fly & get from the airport to city centre when you can get hourly trains from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) that drop you a hell of a lot closer to where you want to be without any hanging about?

I have a work colleague (lives in Exmouth) who quite regularly uses the EXT-LCY for day trips, and it seems to work for him, and is often cheaper than the train. LCY is about 20mins by DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway)/foot from our City Office.

And, of course, the flight guarantees you a seat for the duration of your journey...

[Umberleigh]

[Mods - I couldn’t find a newer thread...?]

So, Newquay to Gatwick has seen passenger numbers increase by 50% since government intervention several years ago, and will become in 2019 Newquay to Heathrow, with an additional daily flight (now four) and a return to the Dash 8 aircraft, This is being further supported by the Government and is hailed as a major boost to the Cornish economy:

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/heathrow-newquay-flights-flybe-taxpayers-subsidise-cornwall-airport-a8646691.html

This surely has to be making some sort of dent in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)’s passenger revenues from Cornwall?

However, Flybe, the airline which operates these flights, is now up for sale and so I guess the future of these flights is far from assured.

Furthermore, does anyone have any information regarding the future of the Exeter to London City route? It’s defied the naysayers, but hard to imagine it surviving the latest crisis.

[stuving]

However, Flybe, the airline which operates these flights, is now up for sale and so I guess the future of these flights is far from assured.

Furthermore, does anyone have any information regarding the future of the Exeter to London City route? It’s defied the naysayers, but hard to imagine it surviving the latest crisis.

Several reports say the buyer will be Virgin (or some bit of it).

[Thatcham Crossing]

If Virgin do take the plunge, it's a safe bet that the Flybe brand will disappear.

If they do, their primary interest will be to use them as a regional feed to their major long-haul hubs at Heathrow and Manchester (not so much Gatwick as it's mainly leisure flights on their "beach fleet" from there).

The hubs of Virgin's part-owners Air France/KLM^▸ (English name: Royal Dutch Airlines ) at Paris (CDG) and Amsterdam respectively will also likely be a focus and Flybe already do a bit of this feeding from places like Birmingham, Southampton, Exeter and the main Scottish airports.

Aside from the above, one suspects operations will be paired-back to the high-frequency operations that they run out of their largest bases - Manchester, Birmingham, Southampton, Belfast City (they are the largest operator by a mile at those last 2) and possibly London City, Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Newquay to Gatwick and now Heathrow is a bit of a special case, as it's operated under a PSO (Public Service Obligation) which means government funding is in place should it be needed to sustain it as a route if required. Chatter on the aviation forums suggests it stands on its own two feet financially at the moment.

[TaplowGreen]

Newquay to Gatwick and now Heathrow is a bit of a special case, as it's operated under a PSO (Public Service Obligation) which means government funding is in place should it be needed to sustain it as a route if required. Chatter on the aviation forums suggests it stands on its own two feet financially at the moment.

It's a great shame that flights from Plymouth to London weren't similarly regarded as a special case.

[ellendune]

It's a great shame that flights from Plymouth to London weren't similarly regarded as a special case.

An interesting argument.  There is a relatively busy airport just outside Exeter, as well as Newquay.  If every City of that size had to have an airport regardless of its distance from the next one, then none of them would be viable - as - I suspect - was found with Plymouth.

There are arguments for government to subsidise some airport and services, but I think that if I had to choose between Newquay and Plymouth, I would have chosen to subsidise Newquay. 

For what it is worth I would suggest that for very large population centres (say conurbations of 2 million plus) then the volumes might be better served by improved rail services.  Subsidised air services should be reserved for remote locations with lower populations.

[didcotdean]

Seen speculations that the real prize are Flybe's slots at Heathrow and the rest would be incidental.

However, Virgin already tried once to run domestic services from Heathrow with these same slots (and some more) obtained after bmi's takeover from BA^» (British Airways - about) as Little Red and they loaded poorly.

[Thatcham Crossing]

I would have chosen to subsidise Newquay.

Indeed, Newquay is a much more capable airport operationally. Even the Embraer regional jet that currently plies between there and Gatwick would not be able to operate from Plymouth's runway.

Seen speculations that the real prize are Flybe's slots at Heathrow and the rest would be incidental.

I think you'll find that the slots that Flybe use to fly their current Aberdeen and Edinburgh services from Heathrow are what is known as "remedy slots" (from the BA^» (British Airways - about) takeover of bmi) and can only be used to a very small, specific list of destinations. They aren't Flybe's to sell, as I understand it.

Little Red used A320's leased from Aer Lingus, which were too much aircraft to compete with BA on those routes. The 78-seat Q400's that Flybe use are more suited (and only a few minutes slower than a pure jet on sectors of this length).

[didcotdean]

Seen speculations that the real prize are Flybe's slots at Heathrow and the rest would be incidental.

I think you'll find that the slots that Flybe use to fly their current Aberdeen and Edinburgh services from Heathrow are what is known as "remedy slots" (from the BA^» (British Airways - about) takeover of bmi) and can only be used to a very small, specific list of destinations. They aren't Flybe's to sell, as I understand it.

Little Red used A320's leased from Aer Lingus, which were too much aircraft to compete with BA on those routes. The 78-seat Q400's that Flybe use are more suited (and only a few minutes slower than a pure jet on sectors of this length).

Yes this was the point I was making, regarding the slot usage at any rate. The load Virgin Red were getting though were poor as the flight frequency was too low (and at the wrong time) to mop up all of connecting traffic into Virgin proper and not marketed that well either from scratch. Although things might be different now with the closer relationship with Delta, and what BE has already built up.

[grahame]

EDIT TO ADD^▸ (Automatic Dropping Device) .. it has been pointed out to me that the article I am quoting is a month old ... please read with that in mind.  HOWEVER it is broadly confirmed today as you'll see from posts later in the thread.

FLYBE takeover just announced: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46834827

New topic required.....

Flybe is being bought for £2.2m by a consortium including Virgin Atlantic and Stobart Group.

It will operate under the Virgin Atlantic brand, marking a return by Virgin to domestic flights, following a failed attempt five years ago.

Based in Exeter, Flybe carries around eight million passengers a year from airports such as Southampton, Cardiff and Aberdeen, to the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and Europe.

The deal needs shareholder approval, but is already backed by the board.

The move comes after Flybe's profits warning in October .

[article continues]

[TaplowGreen]

A good move for all concerned

[The Tall Controller]

Except for some Flybe staff who are now facing redundancies in order to streamline the business.

[Surrey 455]

That BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) story is over a month old, dated 11th January. I've found this dated today though. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47329014

[grahame]

That BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) story is over a month old, dated 11th January. I've found this dated today though. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47329014

Oh gosh - so easy to miss a datestamp on something that comes up on the feed. Thanks for the alert