Possibility of 170 units for FGW?

[whole diary]

[vacman]

They are crap! especially compared to 158's.

No comparisson. I'd even go as far as to say that 158s are better than 170/172s and dare I say Voyagers as well  Which would lead me to say why not build more 158s/159s instead of the tin cans that are built today?

Sorry Mookiemoo for going a bit off topic here 

In my humble opinion the 170's are the best DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s on the network, and, if the latest RUMOUR is to believed, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are investigating the possibilty of having some 170's! (I know Grahame will move this thread now so i'll carry on here!) They are looking at the possibilty of sending the 180's to Scotrail to free up some 170's for us, this has come from a reasonable source so there may be some truth in it! Fingers crossed guys and gals!

[Lee]

In my humble opinion the 170's are the best DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s on the network

I have to admit that I am a Class 170 fan as well.

[martyjon]

They are crap! especially compared to 158's.

No comparisson. I'd even go as far as to say that 158s are better than 170/172s and dare I say Voyagers as well  Which would lead me to say why not build more 158s/159s instead of the tin cans that are built today?

Sorry Mookiemoo for going a bit off topic here 

In my humble opinion the 170's are the best DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s on the network, and, if the latest RUMOUR is to believed, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are investigating the possibilty of having some 170's! (I know Grahame will move this thread now so i'll carry on here!) They are looking at the possibilty of sending the 180's to Scotrail to free up some 170's for us, this has come from a reasonable source so there may be some truth in it! Fingers crossed guys and gals!

This was mooted a few months ago for them to be used on the Glasgow / Edinburgh - Perth - Aberdeen / Inverness routes but rejected. Perhaps a rethink is taking / has taken place and views changed. 

[Timmer]

Just because Im quite a fan of 158s, 170s will be MORE than welcome to these parts  I think Adelantes would be ideal for the IC^▸ (Inter City) type Scotrail services from Edinburgh/Glasgow-Aberdeen/Inverness routes as I'm sure three car 170s aren't enough capacity wise during peak times. Where as a five car 180 does bring extra seating and more of an Intercity style of service which is what it used to be like back in the days of Locos with Mk2^▸ (Mark 2 coach)/Mk3 stock.

[vacman]

It's probably a move that can be more justified (from a profit point of view for FG) for Scotland than for us, 180's and 175's I'm led to believe are virtually identical? if so then Arriva have made some mod's to the 175's which have made them one of the most reliable trains in their fleet, maybe FSR^▸ (First Scot Rail) could do the same?

[mada]

I take it the 170's would go straight on Portsmouth to Cardiff?

[vacman]

they would probably go into the 158 pool so would be used on CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-PMH and BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-PNZ type workings, 170's would be better than 180's as they can be workrd in multiple with all of the current FGW^▸ (First Great Western) DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s.

[Lee]

I take it the 170's would go straight on Portsmouth to Cardiff?

Given that all of First ScotRail's Class 170's are 3 - coach units , I would have thought they would be ideal for the Portsmouth - Cardiff route. As vacman hints , they can be coupled to Class 150 , 153 and 158 units and (according to Porterbrook) to Class 142 , 143 , 165 and 166 units as well with minor modification.

Two notes of possible caution :

1) As vacman points out , this is only a rumour , and as martyjon points out , a similiar idea has been considered and rejected before.

2) The Class 170 units could end up displacing the Class 158 units currently operating on the Portsmouth - Cardiff route. Would those 158's then end up being sent to (say) Northern Rail , rather than boosting capacity elsewhere in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area?

[vacman]

170's can be coupled to 14x units without modification, you often see 143's coupled with 153's. I'm led to belive that this latest plan is down to Mr Haines who apparently took a trip on a 142 between Exeter and somewhere and was less than impressed! Lets hope it happens, even if it just means we get 158's from Scotland, or even 156's! Like I said, it was only a rumour, and the rumour was that FG were investigating the possibility of this move.

[Lee]

As vacman hints , they can be coupled to Class 150 , 153 and 158 units and (according to Porterbrook) to Class 142 , 143 , 165 and 166 units as well with minor modification.

170's can be coupled to 14x units without modification

I will bow to your wisdom , vacman. The Porterbrook link with the "minor modification" quote can be found below.
http://www.porterbrook.co.uk/stocklib/class170-3.htm

[vacman]

I stand corrected! seems strange how a 170 can couple to a 158, and a 142 can couple to a 158 but a 170 can't couple to a 142? lets hope though that the 142's won't be with us that long after all though!

[John R]

The 170s on the Glasgow Edinburgh run are doubled up in the peak, so potentially 1 Cl 180 could replace 2 Cl 170 if the current demand is too great for 1 unit but leaves a second under capacity. They are superb units (having travelled on them very recently) and would be a huge improvement on the existing Cl 158s, both in terms of capacity and quality of interior (though I'll admit I haven't seen the refurbed Cl 158.)

This would seem a very sensible use of stock all round.   

[Timmer]

I stand corrected! seems strange how a 170 can couple to a 158, and a 142 can couple to a 158 but a 170 can't couple to a 142? lets hope though that the 142's won't be with us that long after all though!

From what is being said above I doubt they will be if Andrew Haines has anything to do with it. He knows that by letting the 142s loose on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network that it would be a PR^▸ (Public Relations) disaster and that the press would have a field day. It would only take a camera crew to go up North showing a Wessex Trains livered 158 (they are the ones leaving FGW and not the ex-TPX sets) treading on Northern metals then showing a Northern livered 142 screeching round a bend on a devon branchline and you wouldn't need many words to make a story. 'Straight swap' would do it.

And guess who would get the blame? Give you a clue, it won't be the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)!

[Timmer]

The 170s on the Glasgow Edinburgh run are doubled up in the peak, so potentially 1 Cl 180 could replace 2 Cl 170 if the current demand is too great for 1 unit but leaves a second under capacity. They are superb units (having travelled on them very recently) and would be a huge improvement on the existing Cl 158s, both in terms of capacity and quality of interior (though I'll admit I haven't seen the refurbed Cl 158.)

This would seem a very sensible use of stock all round.   

If you want to see a 158 at it best travel on a SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 158/159 which shows what you can do with them and how good they really can be; especially first class.

[devon_metro]

I'm led to belive that this latest plan is down to Mr Haines who apparently took a trip on a 142 between Exeter and somewhere and was less than impressed!

Give this man a medal