The oncoming storm

[whole diary]

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

With winter fast approaching, and depending on which forecast you chose to believe possibly a bad one, i thought it may be good to set up a thread for people to share past travel experiences/questions ... and for any budding forecasters predictions?

[ChrisB]

There will be no improvement in the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) abilities to run trains at the first fall of snow

Two reasons - drivers & guards, like commuters, don't live close to their depot anymore. But they have to drive usually.

Secondly, peolple have forgotten or never learned properly, how to drive on snow-covered roads...so they can't get very far.

Although if we start getting snow annually, the second reason should disappear as peole do work out its a diffrent way in the snow.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

couldn't agree more on the standard of driving! i have to admit i have had more practice than most in my previous job




(and before nailsea comments for some reason im a very good snow and ice driver  )

i found that around here the efforts to treat the roads were frankly quite pitiful ! we were parked up when a gritter/plough passed by and hardly any grit was deposited... infact it was mixed with sand and not much of that! and all the plough did was turn it into an ski slope!

that being said im not looking forward to braving it in my rear wheel drive automatic car this year !

the main problems tend to be staff and passengers getting to the stations then?

[Zoe]

that being said im not looking forward to braving it in my rear wheel drive automatic car this year !

In quite a few automatics these days you can at least force it to a specific gear.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

you can in mine... i guess the last few years i had the added bonus of knowing that if i damaged the van it wasnt mine 

[LiskeardRich]

RWD and snow dont go together regardless of gear box. I've a 3 series and last winter i tried and ended up sliding out at the first corner i tried. I then ended up driving everywhere in the mrs's vectra. I'm bidding on a Vitara on Ebay at the minute, MOT till March next year, so will do the winter, not much more than scrap value at the moment neither!!!

[IndustryInsider]

There will be no improvement in the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) abilities to run trains at the first fall of snow

Two reasons - drivers & guards, like commuters, don't live close to their depot anymore. But they have to drive usually.

I agree that it's a big issue, but in the last couple of heavy snowfalls that have practically paralysed the network, at a few FGW^▸ (First Great Western) depots drivers/guards were available, and more trains could have operated had the track conditions been better.  Nowhere near as many trains need to run, as there's far less passengers, so efforts by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to keep more routes open (particularly on the Southern network) could lead to at least a partial improvement in my opinion.

Anyway, I think it's quite possible we'll have a run of milder winters and everyone will forget about how bad it was the last couple of years.

[Oxman]

I know from personal experience that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) makes huge efforts to keep running in winter weather. Stations are primed to keep car parks open and platforms and walkways safe. Since last year, company vans at stations have been replaced by 4WDs, so staff can get out to unmanned stations.

Yes, staff will struggle to get in, but many do, and far more pro rata than passengers!

Don't expect the unreasonable - it takes time to clear/treat all stations. But I have no doubt the will (and the means) is there to make it happen.

[eightf48544]

I tend to agree with Industry Insider that we may be due for a milder winter.

Usually when we get a long term forecast of severe winters or blazing hot summers they seem to be wrong.

Wasn't some of the trouble last year that the snow came before Christmas and wasn't forecast much time before hand.

But I do agree a lot of the problems with the railways in snow is that, as has been said, a large number of train and station staff drive relatively long distances to work.

I was on the Southrn in 1963 and I seem to recall that once the intial fall had been cleared the railway ran reasonably well although It was rumoured that when they dug up the reserve coal stocks at Nine Elms and Feltham they were mostly half house bricks, but the Merchants still steamed.

We also needed 28 COR (7 4CORs or Nelsons) on Haslemere bank to clear the conductor rails.

[broadgage]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) did indeed cope better with last winters bad weather than many other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).
Probably because most of their trains are old and/or diesel.

Electric trains are vulnerable to bad weather, conductor rail powered trains more vulnerable still, and generally the newer the train, the worse it performs in snow.

I am old enough to remember the slam door third rail EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), these coped fairly well in snowy weather, and in really bad conditions could be assisted by a steam or diesel locomotive.

Then came class 455s for Waterloo suburban services, these seemed less reliable and frequently suffered from frozen sliding door mechanisms.

Some years later, slam door units on Blackfriars suburban services were replaced by class 319s, theses were so bad in snow that services were withdrawn if snow was even forecast, with customers advised not to travel.

We then suffered another modernisation in south east London when the networkers came into use, and performed very poorly in snow or ice, with customers again advised against travel. (last winter, just to make certain that no one could get to work, they stopped all the buses as well !)

I cant imagine FGW or their replacement, coping very well in snow when 40 year old HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are replaced by modern EMUs.

[Maxwell P]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) did indeed cope better with last winters bad weather than many other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).
Probably because most of their trains are old and/or diesel.

Electric trains are vulnerable to bad weather, conductor rail powered trains more vulnerable still, and generally the newer the train, the worse it performs in snow.

I am old enough to remember the slam door third rail EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), these coped fairly well in snowy weather, and in really bad conditions could be assisted by a steam or diesel locomotive.

Then came class 455s for Waterloo suburban services, these seemed less reliable and frequently suffered from frozen sliding door mechanisms.

Some years later, slam door units on Blackfriars suburban services were replaced by class 319s, theses were so bad in snow that services were withdrawn if snow was even forecast, with customers advised not to travel.

We then suffered another modernisation in south east London when the networkers came into use, and performed very poorly in snow or ice, with customers again advised against travel. (last winter, just to make certain that no one could get to work, they stopped all the buses as well !)

I cant imagine FGW or their replacement, coping very well in snow when 40 year old HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are replaced by modern EMUs.

Without wishing to bang any drums, FGW staff, perhaps having benefited from the PCF Customer Service Programme, also displayed a much more visible 'can do' attitude last winter.  I travelled home from the 'frozen north' via a number of other TOC services and although naturally biased, I found that FGW came out way ahead.

[Chris from Nailsea]

... (and before nailsea comments for some reason im a very good snow and ice driver  )

I've seen photographic evidence of your handiwork in reconfiguring the bodywork of various Ford vans, mind! 

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

ahh the ford wasnt my fault! ... its vauxhalls i tend to trash 

[Timmer]

Excellent blog by the Met office in response to some of the stupid 'artic weather is coming' stories that have appeared in the media recently about the forthcoming winter:
http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2011/10/12/met-office-in-the-media-there-is-no-need-for-alarmism/

Why is councils stocking up on grit such a story? That is what they are expected to do before the start of winter and be more prepared if they have learned lessons from the previous winter by getting in extra stocks if it was felt there wasn't enough to cope with a major snowfall. It's got nothing to do with them having inside information on the forthcoming winter being a severe one. Let's be honest, who really knows?

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

pftt after last year im not trusting the met office !

got snowed in the yard because the snow would turn to rain past plymouth !.... apparently