Buy at the station, or upgrade onboard?

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

I occasionally have to visit Southend, I pickup NXEA^▸ (National Express East Anglia) from Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria.

I normally travel First Class, but quite often around 19:00 - 21:00. Which normally means I fork out ^15.10 to sit in FC^‡(resolve), but quite often I am joined by the lovely Essex Riff Raff who seem to think it's a free for all or the threats of Penalty Fare don't apply to them. Ticket checks in all the times i've travelled have NEVER been made.

As this is slightly annoying, do you think it would be acceptable to purchase a Standard Class ticket, sit in First Class and if anyone comes to check tickets, pay the upgrade then. Or do I have to "bite the bullet" and accept that i've paid more than everyone else.

Do you think I would find myself with a Penalty Fare in this case? Or do you think common sense by the inspector would be applied? Bear in mind I am a Disabled Railcard Holder, which does according to NXEA website allow you to board trains and buy the full range of tickets onboard.

I just find it rather irritating when I pay for something and then get invaded by the riff raff. But equally I don't want find myself with one of those ^20 jobbies as that would turn the taste in my mouth very bitter indeed.

Not meant to be a snobby post... But I'm just curious into what others would do!

[Mookiemoo]

My experience with southern is..................if the guard finds you or you find him first - you'll be fine

If the RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) are like southerns - you get a PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) whether willing to pay or not

I have no idea what they are like.

With FGW^▸ (First Great Western) - even if the RPIs get on they just hoof out etc.

South West - all RPIs at the barriers

Make your choice take your chance - but if me I'd go with the on train method

[inspector_blakey]

The short answer is that if you want to travel in first class, you should have a first class ticket - the presence or absence of other passengers is immaterial. That said, if NXEA^▸ (National Express East Anglia) do indeed have a policy of allowing DSB holders to purchase the full range of tickets on-board then maybe it's easier not to buy a ticket at the station and aim to purchase on-board? Buying a standard class ticket at the station then travelling in first class should get you a penalty fare according to the rules, and I think a strong case could be made that if you were capable of buying a standard class ticket before you boarded you were trying it on, because you could just have easily have bought a first class ticket.

[vacman]

If it's a DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) service then a hard line is taken on First class if caught so you'd be PF^▸ (Penalty Fare)'d.

[johoare]

I do wish train companies would do more ticket checks.. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) turbo services get none at all these days.. I've considered forking out for first class a couple of times recently when I've had work to do on the train but because FGW aren't bothered, unless it's an intercity, there is no point.. I'd probably not get a seat even with a first class ticket..

thetrout.. i don't think it's just essex riff raff.. it's general riff raff.. try getting an evening turbo from paddington to reading and sit in first class.. You'll find riff raff in there too..

[Mookiemoo]

If it's a DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) service then a hard line is taken on First class if caught so you'd be PF^▸ (Penalty Fare)'d.

Not in my experience.

Maybe its changed but I saw a DOO back in feb with RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) - they hoofed out none first if they had a ticket and just charged the rest the upgrade - may as well have been guards. 

Only thing they penaltied was invalid ticket

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

play by the rules... buy a ticket before .... if this happens all the time they need to know in order to do something about it



National Express East Anglia Customer Relations

Customer Relations
National Express East Anglia
Norwich Railway Station
Station Approach
Norwich
NR1 1EF

Tel: 0845 600 7245 (option 7)
Open Monday to Friday 08.00 - 18.00

[thetrout]

Thanks for the replies everyone

It's one of those situations where you're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I will continue to use First Class tickets, but I will complain to NXEA^▸ (National Express East Anglia) if this continues.

I can deal with the fare dodgers, but it's the drunks (which I see regularly) that are the problem.

Not sure if the service is DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) or not. I suspect it would be, but i've never seen any form of Guard or RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)).

[plymothian]

For Weekend First I've always been told to upgrade on board.

[Chris from Nailsea]

An interesting cautionary tale, from the British Transport Police press release:

FARE-DODGING COUPLE WHO DEFRAUDED THE RAILWAY ORDERED TO PAY ^6K

A man and woman from Bishops Stortford who travelled on the railway using ^short tickets^ have been ordered to pay back more than ^6,000 to National Express East Anglia (NXEA^▸ (National Express East Anglia)) following a British Transport Police (BTP^▸ (British Transport Police)) investigation.

The couple, Stephanie Thorndycraft (23) and Liam Cox (26) of Clipped Hedge, Bishops Stortford, appeared at City of Westminster Magistrate^s Court on Wednesday, 28 September 2011, after they pled guilty to fraud by false representation.

During proceedings, the court heard that Cox was stopped by a member of NXEA staff while sitting in a first class carriage at the beginning of July.

When asked for his ticket Cox said he didn^t have one because the ticket machines hadn^t been working, despite holding one in his hands. Cox continued to give feeble explanations, which the vigilant staff didn^t believe.

The train next arrived at Tottenham Hale station and soon after the member of staff cautioned Cox, he ran away.

BTP investigators worked with NXEA^s fraud unit and discovered that Cox had been travelling on ^short tickets^ between Bethnal Green and Liverpool Street stations, despite logging down his home address as being in Sawbridgeworth

At the beginning of August, NXEA revenue protection officers covertly visited Cox^s home address, and saw a woman, later identified as Thorndycraft, walking out.

She then travelled on to Liverpool Street and when rail staff asked for her ticket they discovered that she had also been travelling on ^short tickets^.

Constable Mandy Humphrey, the BTP investigating officer, said that during interview Cox admitted to travelling from Sawbridgeworth to London Liverpool Street five times a week since February 2010 in order to get to work: ^Cox went on to admit that he had been stopped before by rail staff on several occasions but would continue to travel fraudulently, despite being issued with fines. What^s worse is that Cox had freely told his girlfriend what he had been doing and Thorndycraft duly copied her boyfriend^s dishonest activities since the beginning of this year.^

BTP officers and National Express East Anglia calculated that in terms of compensation, Cox was responsible for ^4,719.60 while Thorndycraft was responsible for ^1,640.80

Constable Humphrey added: ^Cox and Thorndycraft clearly enjoyed not paying their full rail fares, spending their excess money on expensive items. Although the couple made full and frank admissions, travel fraud is a serious crime and for this they thoroughly deserved to appear in front of the courts. Their sentence should serve as a warning to others that BTP, together with our railway colleagues, will continue to investigate and put a stop to prolific fraud offenders.^

Alan Perry National Express East Anglia^s Head of Revenue Protection said: ^These successful prosecutions should act as a warning to those intent on defrauding the railway that their actions will not be tolerated. We will continue to work closely with the BTP to ensure that honest fare paying customers are not subsidising the rail travel of fare evaders.^

At court, both Cox and Thorndycraft also received 24-month conditional discharges and ordered to pay ^85 in costs.

[inspector_blakey]

As well-deserved as the sentences may be, I find the idea of TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) revenue protection staff "covertly visiting" someone's home somewhat disconcerting.

[Chris from Nailsea]

So do I.

Do they have any legal authority to do so?

[ChrisB]

Of course they do if they remain in public areas on the highway/footways, just as you or I do. There is no suggestion they went anywhere else

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmmm.

At the beginning of August, NXEA^▸ (National Express East Anglia) revenue protection officers covertly visited Cox^s home address, and saw a woman, later identified as Thorndycraft, walking out.

That's a bit more than 'remaining in public areas on the highway/footways, just as you or I do.' 

[Ollie]

I think conclusions are being jumped to based on wording. I very much doubt NXEA^▸ (National Express East Anglia) staff actually went on to the property, would have just been close enough to observe the house.

I would assume the staff used were PACE^» (Police & Criminal Evidence Act - about) trained.