ORR concerned at lack of Pacer replacement program

[whole diary]

[northwesterntrains]

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/health_safety_report_2011.pdf

There were a number of notable incidents with rolling stock, the causes of which are as yet inconclusive;... cardan shaft failures on class 142 ^Pacers^. More rolling stock is being used beyond its intended design life and we have devoted an increasing amount of time monitoring the safety performance and maintenance of older rolling stock to verify that procedures are in place to ensure ongoing safe operation. We are particularly concerned about the ongoing use of Pacers beyond their intended design life and we will be scrutinising the industry^s plans for ensuring they can continue to be used safely

[anthony215]

I do agree that the industry and the governemnt need to announce something to do with replacing the pacers.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should be ok as they could use the displaced class 165/166's from the thames valley as well as the class 150's although they would need replacing eventually.

ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) should be ok if the valley lines are wired and the wires do eventually get to Swansea.

Now for Northern, i know that there is that chineese firm CSRE who do have some train deisgns are very low prices  and who plan on opening a uk factory if they get orders.

 I noticed hitachi have been advertising some new EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) in the lastest issues of the various railway magazines so maybe perhaps a dmu version could be built.

Other than that maybe order a few class 172's from Bombardier

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

the class 142 is actually slightly newer than the class 150

[northwesterntrains]

the class 142 is actually slightly newer than the class 150

The 150 was built to a higher budget with a longer life expectancy though.  Making some of the 150s DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) complaint may prove economically viable allowing them to remain in service post-2019, while it's been decided that making 142s DDA complaint is not economically viable as the cost of doing it would pay for 40-50% of a new train.

As mentioned in the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) the cause of multiple carden shaft failures on Pacers (a serious problem) has yet to be established.  Yet no serious problems have occurred with 150s.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

it was my understanding that sprinters also suffer from the same engine drop problem as the pacers (but less frequently) .... as for bringing them upto scratch .... how long does a journey have to be before toilets are needed (i know that this is only one thing that needs altering).... but for example manchester-marple probably doesnt need toilets so they would just rip them out?

[anthony215]

it was my understanding that sprinters also suffer from the same engine drop problem as the pacers (but less frequently) .... as for bringing them upto scratch .... how long does a journey have to be before toilets are needed (i know that this is only one thing that needs altering).... but for example manchester-marple probably doesnt need toilets so they would just rip them out?

I believe trains need toilets if the service they work on is more than 1 hour or something although that is till not very popular with passengers ie southern class 313's

[northwesterntrains]

how long does a journey have to be before toilets are needed (i know that this is only one thing that needs altering).... but for example manchester-marple probably doesnt need toilets so they would just rip them out?

The Pacer has numerous DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) infringements.  The biggest one is not the toilets but the double step and because of the double step it requires a specially extended ramp with the extended ramp being unsuitable for stations which have narrow platforms such as Guide Bridge and Salford Crescent.  Those two being key because so many Pacer services call at them.

Just to give you some sort of idea to how much work would be need to be done to most of the Northern 142s:
* Double step removed.
* Destination blinds replaced by larger LED displays.
* Reliable on board audio and visual announcements of stations.
* All original bus seating replaced because it is too low down.
* Doors replaced by doors which can withstand a wheelchair crashing in to them without damaging them.
* New DDA complaint door controls.
* New DDA toilet at front or back of train.

[northwesterntrains]

it was my understanding that sprinters also suffer from the same engine drop problem as the pacers (but less frequently) .... as for bringing them upto scratch .... how long does a journey have to be before toilets are needed (i know that this is only one thing that needs altering).... but for example manchester-marple probably doesnt need toilets so they would just rip them out?

I believe trains need toilets if the service they work on is more than 1 hour or something although that is till not very popular with passengers ie southern class 313's

Frequency and facility at stations are important too.  Marple was mentioned.  Now some of the Marple services continue to Sheffield that call at some small villages in the Hope Valley where the frequency is one train every 2 hours off-peak, which also provide starting/ending points for scenic walks.  Now if one of those trains was cancelled and the next one turned up without a toilet imagine how you'd feel as a passenger having no toilet available to you for the two hours+ you were waiting and then up to a further hour while travelling.

Merseyrail don't have toilets but the major stations they call at all have toilets and the frequency is at least every 15 minutes, except for a couple of stations where the frequency is every 30 minutes.

The toilet on train option is much cheaper than making sure every station with at least 250,000 journeys per annum has a toilet or quadrupling the frequency of service, which are really the alternatives.

[JayMac]

Just to give you some sort of idea to how much work would be need to be done to most of the Northern 142s:
* Double step removed.
* Destination blinds replaced by larger LED displays.
* Reliable on board audio and visual announcements of stations.
* All original bus seating replaced because it is too low down.
* Doors replaced by doors which can withstand a wheelchair crashing in to them without damaging them.
* New DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) complaint door controls.
* New DDA toilet at front or back of train.

That all presupposes that UK^▸ (United Kingdom) train operators will have to comply with DDA legislation. Less stringent laws are making there way through the European Parliament at the moment and legislation harmonisation may well see laws that are practical for the newer entrant EU^» (European Union - about) countries to comply with being used in the UK.

[mjones]

Aren't platforms much lower anyway in the rest of Europe, so steps are the norm? I don't know how they'd make French trains wheelchair accessible.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

another thing which hasn't been brought up on here.... steam railways

[paul7575]

I believe trains need toilets if the service they work on is more than 1 hour or something although that is till not very popular with passengers ie southern class 313's

There is no time or distance rule published regarding toilet provision. 

This was researched to death when the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) got the media involved prior to the introduction of SN's 313 services; and no doubt the mythical '1 hour' limit will be mentioned again when they start running Brighton to Southampton Central in December...

Paul

[inspector_blakey]

In the US I think FRA rules stipulate no more than 45 miles on trains with no toilets. At least one transit agency therefore artificially designates a station at the centre of their network at a point at which through trains arbitrarily 'terminate' then 're-originate' so that all journeys are technically less than the required distance and they don't have to provide loos.

I'm also not sure how wheelchair access is provided in Europe at low platform stations - plenty of them around here but the trains aren't equipped with any kind of lift. In some cases a very short high section of platform (wide enough for a wheelchair to board at a single door, requiring fairly accurate stopping from the driver) is provided, otherwise the advice is to use another station.

[northwesterntrains]

another thing which hasn't been brought up on here.... steam railways

Pacers are used on public transport whereas steam railways are a tourist attraction, which makes a big difference.

[northwesterntrains]

That all presupposes that UK^▸ (United Kingdom) train operators will have to comply with DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) legislation. Less stringent laws are making there way through the European Parliament at the moment and legislation harmonisation may well see laws that are practical for the newer entrant EU^» (European Union - about) countries to comply with being used in the UK.

When questioned on it Philip Hammond said public transport will be largely DDA complaint by 2019 but operators will be allowed to have minor infringements if they have vehicles due for replacement in the first couple of years after DDA kicks in.

While he didn't define what major and minor infringements are, I can't see wheelchairs not being able to board at the largest station in the city of Salford being other than a major infringement, while I imagine something like destination displays half a point size too small would be a minor infringement.