Locking intermediate doors

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From another thread ...

Yes but just keeping Coach G & H Locked will soon stop all the Standing in First Class.

Do FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) have selective door operation? If not I guess keeping coaches locked OOU^▸ (out of use) with people in them is not permitted>

I came across a "new one" the other week ... a train comprised of 158, 153 and 150/2 units - gangwayed all through, and will all carriages in use, but the intermediate door locked between the front carriages and and the 150/2 unit on the rear.   My first thought was "ouch - is that allowed" but I guess there's no reason that it's not - after all it could have been a 150/1 on the back.

On the same basis, I suppose there's no reason why a 125 can't have doors between carriages locked for some reason, even with passengers both sides of the locked door?

[broadgage]

It used to be done, to confine second or third class class to the correct area of the train.
Dont know if it is allowed these days though.

[ChrisB]

HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) do have selective door opening. They wiuldn't be allowed on the Cotswold Line otherwise

[smokey]

I think there's some misunderstanding about my original comment to keep doors Locked on coaches G & H.

I meant that when pick up ONLY HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services arrive in Reading that by the use of SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) the Doors on coaches G & H are not unlocked.

There is a STRICT rule that all EXIT dooors on Passenger stock MUST be UNLOCKED, ie that the emergency door release will operate.

Reguarding Internal Gangways doors from coach to coach, well FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in their wisdom sorry stupidity removed the gangway doors from coach ends on HST stock, fantastic secruity when left on depots as parted stock.

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) an Internal door CAN be locked IF Passengers are Not carried in the other part of the train.
Of course when units are  coupled together if one or both are ungangwayed then there is NO Physcial way from one part to the other of the train.
However if units are coupled together then the Internal gangway must be opened if Passengers are carried in both parts.

There may be operational reasons why when units are coupled together only part of the Train is in use.

A failure in one unit, no heating, lighting, or Air Con.
Could just be on lighltly loaded trains for RP reasons , conductor has less walking to do and will check tickets faster.

[ChrisB]

Pax would simply use the Emergency handle to release the doors at Reading.

[grahame]

I think there's some misunderstanding about my original comment to keep doors Locked on coaches G & H.

I split this into a separate thread Smokey, because you inspired me to drift offtopic onto a separate locked door question

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) an Internal door CAN be locked IF Passengers are Not carried in the other part of the train.
Of course when units are  coupled together if one or both are ungangwayed then there is NO Physcial way from one part to the other of the train.
However if units are coupled together then the Internal gangway must be opened if Passengers are carried in both parts.

That's my question answered ... but why?  If one or both units are not gangwayed, there will be no route through ...

There may be operational reasons why when units are coupled together only part of the Train is in use.

Agreed - but I've actually come across a scenario where units were coupled and it was deemed operationally sensible to restrict through passage ... at the time it struck me as "is this right" but then on reflection it struck me as being no different to what would have happened if we had had a 150/1 and a 150/2

[The Grecian]

I once travelled on the 2010 SWT^▸ (South West Trains) departure from Exeter St Davids to Basingstoke (before the hourly service came in) which had 9 carriages, but only the front 3 were in use. I got on at Exeter Central - the fact that the train came in the platform in full (probably due to the gradient) meant everyone had to hurry all the way down the platform.

I think the reason was that as SWT try to station all bar a handful of units at Salisbury overnight for maintenance, they sent much bigger trains back towards Salisbury in the evening than they actually need, so it's for operational convenience.

[JayMac]

I once travelled on the 2010 SWT^▸ (South West Trains) departure from Exeter St Davids to Basingstoke (before the hourly service came in) which had 9 carriages, but only the front 3 were in use. I got on at Exeter Central - the fact that the train came in the platform in full (probably due to the gradient) meant everyone had to hurry all the way down the platform.

They never had that problem when it was 'Hoovers' and Mk2s^▸ (Mark 2 coach):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8l-IYN99zc

Listen to the comedy cough from the cameraman at 3:02......

[readytostart]

I once travelled on the 2010 SWT^▸ (South West Trains) departure from Exeter St Davids to Basingstoke (before the hourly service came in) which had 9 carriages, but only the front 3 were in use. I got on at Exeter Central - the fact that the train came in the platform in full (probably due to the gradient) meant everyone had to hurry all the way down the platform.

I think the reason was that as SWT try to station all bar a handful of units at Salisbury overnight for maintenance, they sent much bigger trains back towards Salisbury in the evening than they actually need, so it's for operational convenience.

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Voyagers when in multiple but with one set out of use are required to stop at the VT8/9/10 board where provided in case the rear unit is fowling any points, doesn't apply North of Edinburgh (or I'm guessing West of Plymouth) where only single units are ever run in passenger service.

[TerminalJunkie]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Voyagers when in multiple but with one set out of use are required to stop at the VT8/9/10 board where provided in case the rear unit is fowling any points

Chickens.

[Tim]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Voyagers when in multiple but with one set out of use are required to stop at the VT8/9/10 board where provided in case the rear unit is fowling any points

Chickens.

You have a paltry sense of humour

[readytostart]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Voyagers when in multiple but with one set out of use are required to stop at the VT8/9/10 board where provided in case the rear unit is fowling any points

Chickens.

Damn it, I picked someone up with exactly the same schoolboy error the other day, luckily he's not in the forum so I still have the air of superiority there!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Eggsactly. 

[smokey]

From another thread .

On the same basis, I suppose there's no reason why a 125 can't have doors between carriages locked for some reason, even with passengers both sides of the locked door?

To come back to Locking Internal doors between coaches.

On FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s that's not likely to Happen because the Internal doors were removed from most stock on the last refurbishment.

The reason Internal doors on unit working SHOULD NOT be locked, is simple, read any safety card.
EMERGENCY: It'S SAFEST to stay on the train, the access from One Unit to another is better & Safer than leaving the train.

Internal EXITS between coaches are the First choice Fire Escape!

For operational reason parts of trains may be locked out of use, BUT the guard or Train manager HAS to be in the part of the train carrying passengers

[The SprinterMeister]

I came across a "new one" the other week ... a train comprised of 158, 153 and 150/2 units - gangwayed all through, and will all carriages in use, but the intermediate door locked between the front carriages and and the 150/2 unit on the rear.   My first thought was "ouch - is that allowed" but I guess there's no reason that it's not - after all it could have been a 150/1 on the back.

If all vehicles are in passenger use the gangways (where fitted and available) must be unlocked throught the train. 

The probable reason for that is that the train is scheduled to call at a station such as Filton Abbey Wood, Ivybridge or Worle which doesn't have grandfather rights for trains longer than the platform can accomodate to call there. There is no equivalent of SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) on the West unit fleet, therefore the coaches that will not fit on the platform are required to be locked out of use well before the train arrives at the short platform.

Another possibility is that there was some defect on the unit which rendered it unsuitable to convey passengers which then requires the gangway doors to be locked to prevent passenger access to it.

On late night trains where more units are in the consist than are required to move the amount of passengers simply to get units to a depot the guards wil quite often lock vehicles out of use. This is simply to cut down on the number of places the faredodging late night types can go to avoid being gripped, annoy the other passengers or avoid being thrown off for not having a valid ticket or the means to pay.