Can you collect tickets purchased on-line on the train

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Because you hzve a ticket checker on every DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) train and few pax that seeing & checking every fresh pax is relatively easy.

Nothing like a three car/six car turbo or hst

Not quite have you ever travelled on a 4/6 car DLR train at peak times! you rarely get your ticket checked. Assumming you were able to get on the train in the first palce.

No the answer with smartcards is within the Urban area (Tarrif Zone for Public Transport) if you don't touch in or out you get charged maximum fare you could have incurred irrespective of your journey.

For longer journies what a about a smart phone application with a reader that writes your journey on to the smart card. So you book and your tickets and seat resevations are on your card

The latest move is to put the Travel function on a debit card, I'll have to check with my cousin how far that's got! 

[RailCornwall]

Can't help but feel that people are inflating the issues related to ITSO introduction. User 'training', a use discount, and a brief handover period where penalty/maximum fares are minimal, followed by a firm date for a much higher penalty would work. A touch in and out system would be easy to implement and would with record processing be sufficiently clever to handle day and period return tickets too. It would also deal with split ticketing revenue protection issues too.

[JayMac]

It would also deal with split ticketing revenue protection issues too.

What revenue protection issues are there with split ticketing?

[grahame]

It would also deal with split ticketing revenue protection issues too.

What revenue protection issues are there with split ticketing?

Perhaps RailCornwall means Dumbelling which is an illegitimate use of multiple tickets, as opposed to split ticketing which is legitimate, and is only an issue for "revenue protection" in that sometimes people can get some better deals than they would by purchasing a single ticket.

[ChrisB]

Not heard that term, although I probably heard what it means. Can you define please?

[grahame]

Not heard that term, although I probably heard what it means. Can you define please?

Oh gosh - it's quite a while since we discussed it.  Search for "dumbelling" on the forum ... or there's quite a short and accurate description at

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=7182.msg71751#msg71751

[ChrisB]

Yes, I thoughtbit might be. Thanks

[paul7575]

Can't help but feel that people are inflating the issues related to ITSO introduction. User 'training', a use discount, and a brief handover period where penalty/maximum fares are minimal, followed by a firm date for a much higher penalty would work. A touch in and out system would be easy to implement and would with record processing be sufficiently clever to handle day and period return tickets too. It would also deal with split ticketing revenue protection issues too.

You point out that a 'touch in and out system would be easy to implement', but even now they can't get everyone to use it correctly in the London area, hence the regular media reports of Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) rip off fares, and regular criticism from the GLA transport commitee...  This is predominantly caused by people finding either no ticket barriers, or that they are open (for whatever reason) - they just don't get the point that the system needs a touch in and out on the pads anyway - despite the max cash fare system having been in place since shortly after PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) started.

Paul   

[ChrisB]

Comversely, i regularly see paper ticket holders trying to force said tickets into slot ecen though gate is already open. Hilarious!

[Btline]

It's really not difficult. Touch in and touch out. There are enough posters. Ok, we'll all forget once in a while, but having a Penalty Fare will soon make people remember.

And it's a good excuse to increase the number of gated stations and the times they are operational.

[Brucey]

The Penalty Fare/Maximum Fare would have to be huge.  What would be the incentive to touch out after a lengthy journey when you could just pay a smaller maximum fare?

Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) works on the tube as the penalties are all larger than the most expensive journey.  On National Rail, I don't think a ^600 maximum fare would work!

[ChrisB]

And the way PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) works is that it deducts the max fare from your balance & then refunds the over once you touch out....

[Btline]

Yes, but I'm not talking about pay and go for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) am I?

And remember that guards would still check tickets. No touch in = penalty fare. Multiple penalty fares (if you try and blag Newquay to Kyle) = prosecution.

[inspector_blakey]

Yes, but I'm not talking about pay and go for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) am I?

If I've understood you correctly then you are, aren't you? I'd have said that touching in/out for whatever journey you wish to make on the rail system counts as 'pay as you go' (which is a term used to distinguish paying for journeys as you take them, as opposed to having a period pass allowing unlimited travel).

Someone else has no doubt already pointed this out, but for a start there's an issue with first class - do you have separate 'pads' for first and standard at every station?!

What strikes me as a bigger problem is this - on Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go), as has been pointed out, the maximum fare for the journey is deducted initially, then you're refunded as you touch out. Not enough credit, you'll be told to add more value to the card before you can make the journey. Deducting the maximum fare for a journey on NR is clearly not viable, so effectively the passenger would end up paying in arrears for their travel (rather than in advance for a paper ticket).

I'm struggling to comprehend what the advantage of your proposed system (smartcards, touching in and out but with guards still checking tickets) has over paper tickets, frankly, with the possible exception of enabling last minute advance purchases if you're travelling from a station where you can't collect tickets. That issue could be solved in a much more straightforward manner with some form of 'print at home' or eticketing as is already available with some TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), it doesn't require blanket smart cards!

[Btline]

My system, you load tickets onto the Smartcard. Buy online, on the phone, at a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) or at a ticket office. Touch the reader at the start of the journey and again at the end to use the ticket and pass through barriers quickly. Guards check with a tap. If the ticket is not valid then it beeps.

No pay and go - apart from selected areas.