Can you collect tickets purchased on-line on the train

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Hmmm. Cough...

Good news! Let's have it on the Severn Beach line and to Bath next then!

[matt473]

 Remember you can pick up pre-booked advance tickets before the day of departure and at any ticket office.

Which is great unless the station you are travelling from is quite a distance away, is only open at times you are busy etc. Also it seems that the industry is not so keen on the number of ticket offices so this may not be an option in the future. Sadly this means that for passangers like myself who travel from unmanned station just a shelter on the platform, I must pick up my tickets from a larger station with the nearest 20 miles away.

A short term solution would be for TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to offer a text service stating journey intended so this can be shown to the guard if incomming connections are late or there are unreasonable queues. Or of course develop a way to print advance tickets on board to be kept in TM^‡(resolve) office or buffet on the hst's for example.

[eightf48544]

Smart Cards are the obvious answer particularly for regular travellers, look how well Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) has worked. I know many non London people, who can't buy Travelcards from their originating station, holding a PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) Oyster card to travel around town when on a visit.

If you know how to play the system and keep out of Zone 1 you can cross London from West Drayton to Barking for less than ^2. The only problem is you need all day.

For advanced purchased tickets you have the DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) system print at home and show together with the card you purchased them with to the gripper. Who reads the doodle printed on the form and swipes the card. Using the same multi purpose doodle and bankcard reader, ticket issuing machine etc.

[ChrisB]

Smartcards are the way to go.

Then all you need is a reader/writer pad at each station. You buy online, collect your ticket by tapping the pad at your boarding station (it is YOUR responsibility to care for & carry your smartcard, no one elses!), and tap out to show you haven't over-ridden your fare.

You would need a penalty add-on for forgetting to collect or close your journey, otherwise you could ride to anywhere!

Maybe worth adding to franchise requirements as they come up for bid? Ah yes, that could be the GW^▸ (Great Western) franchise to start....

[paul7575]

Smartcards are the way to go.

Then all you need is a reader/writer pad at each station. You buy online, collect your ticket by tapping the pad at your boarding station (it is YOUR responsibility to care for & carry your smartcard, no one elses!), and tap out to show you haven't over-ridden your fare.

Assuming the smart card has a defined journey loaded, there are still going to be passengers who have loaded an offpeak and try to travel on a peak service etc, people with reserved seats or reserved trains who try and use the wrong train, or attempt to travel off the route they actually bought.  Let's face it even when they have printed coupons to hand with the instructions on plenty of people try it on - and they aren't going to be able to read their own smartcard away from a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) - a smartcard could make this sort of problem more likely?

I don't quite see why you would have to 'tap out' though, if you didn't you would be in no different a position to someone with a paper ticket who got off at an ungated station and kept his ticket.  I've heard that one of the criticisms of SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s ITSO smart card is that they want season ticket holders to touch in and out on each and every journey - but there is no comparable requirement for passengers with paper tickets to do the same.  If a smartcard requires more passenger action than a paper version - what's the real attraction?

Paul

[ChrisB]

Assuming the smart card has a defined journey loaded, there are still going to be passengers who have loaded an offpeak and try to travel on a peak service etc, people with reserved seats or reserved trains who try and use the wrong train, or attempt to travel off the route they actually bought.  Let's face it even when they have printed coupons to hand with the instructions on plenty of people try it on - and they aren't going to be able to read their own smartcard away from a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) - a smartcard could make this sort of problem more likely?

That's why I said you need to touch out as well, so if you travel outwith your ticket you can be charged a PF^▸ (Penalty Fare). That could be mailed to your registered address, and smartcard inactivated by readers if you fail to pay. You get a print out when you purchase at a ticket office/online....so you know what your restrictions are.

If you want the ease, you have to accept that your own responsibility is to rise. Ditto on phone tickets - your responsibilities to keep it charged will be more than just keeping a ticket on your person.

I don't quite see why you would have to 'tap out' though, if you didn't you would be in no different a position to someone with a paper ticket who got off at an ungated station and kept his ticket. 

Beause its easier to defraud? And for smartcards to work properly, all stations would need gating, except for possibly the ery smallest. If there were ungated stations on the underground, Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) wouldn't work either.

I've heard that one of the criticisms of SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s ITSO smart card is that they want season ticket holders to touch in and out on each and every journey - but there is no comparable requirement for passengers with paper tickets to do the same. 

Probably because its easier to have everyone touch out, rather than some do & some don't, which could in itself lead to claims of confusion when fraud is taking place?

If a smartcard requires more passenger action than a paper version - what's the real attraction?

It's really not difficult to touch out every journey if the readers are situated in sensible places where you have to pass on exiting the station. Proves you've remembered it. Challenges fraud. If everyone was honest, it wouldn't be necesary. So those willing to jump their fares make it worse for everyone, that's life, unfortunately...

[ellendune]

And for smartcards to work properly, all stations would need gating, except for possibly the ery smallest. If there were ungated stations on the underground, Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) wouldn't work either.

I do not see why small stations would need to have barriers.  Simply provide the same sort of card readers they have when you have to swipe your oyster to change routes.  LT inspectors have a device that can read the card and see whether it has been swiped in or not.  It would just put the responsibility on the passenger to swipe in and out. 

[ChrisB]

I'm not going to debate where the line between 'very smallest' and 'small' is, sorry.

[RailCornwall]

Just to point out that Oystet works well on the Ungated DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) so why shouldn't a similar card work at ungated NR^» (Network Rail - home page) stations?

[ChrisB]

Because you hzve a ticket checker on every DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) train and few pax that seeing & checking every fresh pax is relatively easy.

Nothing like a three car/six car turbo or hst

[super tm]

I not sure it works that well on the DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) they do have problems with people travelling short journeys.  Also the penalty fare is curently ^50 and Boris is proposing to increase it to ^80 which is quite an incentive to validate your oyster before travel.

[Brucey]

There are a few LU stations without ticket gates (e.g. South Kenton).  I believe the system works there due to people arriving at gated stations, therefore risking a penalty fare by not touching in.

[paul7575]

On LU, it is important to distinguish between a 'penalty fare' and a 'maximum cash fare'.  The former is basically the same process as a National Rail PF^▸ (Penalty Fare), (although a different value[1], and would only be charged by revenue protection staff).  The latter is what the Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) system charges automatically if you fail to touch in or out, and has a defined value depending on whether you are travelling peak or offpeak.

Although many PAYG users appear to think the terms are synonymous, they are definitely not.

[1] Another subtle difference with a TfL^» (Transport for London - about) PF is that it is similar to a council parking penalty, in that the advertised sum is halved if payment made within so many days.  There was a consultation into making NR^» (Network Rail - home page) PFs ^50/^25 to come into line with TfL a couple of years back, but it seemed to die with the change of government...

Paul

[ChrisB]

No they're not - but imagine the max fare if smartcards came to the railway!...

[paul7575]

No they're not - but imagine the max fare if smartcards came to the railway!...

This is why in my opinion 'PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go)' on ITSO will only ever work in defined urban areas for local journeys.  Many comments about how wonderful a PAYG style system would be on the national system are made without understanding how the 'entry charge' system actually works...

Paul