Debit cards and train tickets ........ What is going on?

[whole diary]

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

We have had a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) at Hanborough for a couple of years now. It is very temperamental as to what cards it will accept and nothing seems to be able to be done to make it more friendly to customers. The worst result is that barrier staff at places like Reading and Paddington think you are a criminal if you cannot present a ticket at the barrier when the machine has not worked and a conductor has not collected fares on the train. The Oxford barrier people are a lot more understanding as they know the problem with the machine.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

not wanting to throw more into the mix... but i have a natwest blue and its worked onboard...its a business card tho? i dunno if that makes a differance

[LiskeardRich]

I've paid a friends o2 phone bill the last 2 months as o2 doesnt like her santander debit card, yet she has been able to go to a cash machine and withdraw the cash to give me to cover my debit card cost.

Talking to a local guard, he said most standard debit cards reject these days unless the card is for a premium account, Mines a LLoyds Platinum account..

Mookiemoo you state your card is a cheque guarantee card, i can 100% definitly tell you it isn't, as this facility no longer available in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), even if the card says it is!

[vacman]

The only cards I ever seem to have problems with are Lloyds and Natwest, only once had a Barclas declined and it was also declined when I phoned up for auth.

[Surrey 455]

You're right about some cards requiring authorisation on every occasion. Some banks issue identical cards for full authorisation and offline authorisation. My understanding was that the first 6 digits of a visa card identify which bank has issued it and there was a look up table on card readers that told it if authorisation was required or not. As a made up example, 4999 98 and 4999 99 might be issued as identical debit cards by the same bank but one of those may need full authorisation.

However I've found a useful explanation below which may contradict this.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2602819

[JayMac]

I've read on another forum that Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) Mobile should accept the same methods of payments as accepted at ticket offices. This is apparently laid down in ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here)'s TIS^‡(resolve) Supplier & Specification Accreditation process.

That's just one post on another forum with no quoted source though.....

[devon_metro]

If you have a basic bank account, chances are your card will decline unless the card terminal is connected to a phone line.

[Mookiemoo]

If you have a basic bank account, chances are your card will decline unless the card terminal is connected to a phone line.

I DON'T have a basic bank account - thats the point!

[Tim]

The only cards I ever seem to have problems with are Lloyds and Natwest

What do those banks have in common?  Oh yes the two that are state-owned!

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

finally after many years of this question being asked .... (unless someone else has already answered it)..... certain cards store the number of offline transactions within the chip and once you reach the limit the card will need authorisation (to go online) ... this is a fraud prevention fail safe built into the card and explains why some people have used a card before with no problems and a few days later had no joy, i believe next time its involved in an online transaction that it resets the chip   

[super tm]

I've read on another forum that Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) Mobile should accept the same methods of payments as accepted at ticket offices. This is apparently laid down in ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here)'s TIS^‡(resolve) Supplier & Specification Accreditation process.

That's just one post on another forum with no quoted source though.....

Clearly incorrect as Tickets offices can take electron cards and cannot be used on train

[JayMac]

Clearly incorrect as Tickets offices can take electron cards and cannot be used on train

Ahh. Electron Cards possibly not. But 'Electronic Use Only' Visa/Maestro debit cards can be accepted if the TM^‡(resolve)/Conductor/Guard is willing to phone the relevant 'merchant services' to get authorisation.... Practical? No. Possible? Yes.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

i was told by a guard this morning about this issue... on some cards there is deffo a cap on offline transactions ... the chip stores the info, the chip also stores your pin

[devon_metro]

The chip storing the pin is the reason that the card machine will instantly tell you if you put the wrong pin in, meanwhile takes a while to decline if the  funds aren't available since the machine needs to dial the merchant.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

yep... but certain cards will allow a certain number of offline transactions before it auto declines.... its similar to your sky box at home, if the phone line goes down when you want to order a box office event the machine will let you watch a few without connecting and bill you later.... they dont want you to miss out because you cant get online, but there has to be a limit...