Siemens gets Thameslink new trains order

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about):  http://nds.coi.gov.uk/clientmicrosite/Content/Detail.aspx?ClientId=202&NewsAreaId=2&ReleaseID=419953&SubjectId=36
So hopefully the planned cascade of 319s for Thames Valley services should happen roughly on time.  I wonder if the delays with most of Bombardier's recent orders have been held against them?

Paul

[anthony215]

I had my money on Bombardier getting this contract. That said i think some of the problems affecting Bombardier recently (not all their fault mind you) may have had a slight negative affect on thier bid.

I do hope Bombardier get the crossrail contract.

[IndustryInsider]

And nearly two years on, they've finally managed to raise the money to build the damn things!      Still, hopefully just in time so that the various electrification programmes can get their cascaded/new units in time?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/thameslink-deal-close-to-completion

[ChrisB]

Be interested in being a fly on the wall at Bombardier right now. Could that be the last straw for them in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)?

[paul7575]

Bombardier have had over two years to get used to this decision though.  Despite what the Derby local press have been pushing ever since, the decision was really done and dusted when Siemens were named preferred bidder; and most of the reported total number of job losses would have occurred anyway - they were mainly people working on LU orders which would have ended well before the Thameslink order could start IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly).

Regarding cascades to other routes, isn't the idea that Southern have ordered various other batches of Electrostars on behalf of DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to fill in elsewhere?  There's a section about it in the NAO Thameslink report...

Paul

[ChrisB]

I heard somewhere that 319s were heading for the Thames Valley once electrified?

[IndustryInsider]

Agreed that Bombardier will have long considered Thameslink as dead for them.  If they don't get Crossrail then that might be the final nail in the coffin though?

Regarding cascades, the original plan was 319s for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and up north, and we still aren't clear on what is going to happen, but I can see the 319 fleet all going up north (as electrification has been extended since the original plan), and some/all of the 110mph units Southern are procuring ending up on FGW LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) routes.  Time will tell though, and there's other routes that will need electric trains sooner rather than later such as East-West Rail and Valley Lines, etc...

[ChrisB]

Presumably, the deadline for having new builds ready for the THames Valley is very fast approaching - the same way that the Hitachi buld IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) needed starting imminently....?

So the longer the process drags on, surely the more likely that the 319s will come to the TV?

[anthony215]

I wouldnt be too surpised to see some class 319's come to the Thames Valley for use on the branches and Reading - Bassingstoke etc however I think the GW^▸ (Great Western) will get some newer stock which can do 110mph.

The Cardiff Valleys were supposed to be getting class 315's however it seems some in the WG are not happy with this and are now pushing for newer units. If Bombardier want work then I am sure perhaps they might be able to do deals.

Hitachi are also likely to be after orders to help justify their train building factory as well.

Something which could help is if Crossrail 2 goes ahead and new rolling stock is ordered for the Piccadily and Bakerloo lines. You also have Merseyrail looking for new stock

[IndustryInsider]

Presumably, the deadline for having new builds ready for the THames Valley is very fast approaching - the same way that the Hitachi buld IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) needed starting imminently....?

So the longer the process drags on, surely the more likely that the 319s will come to the TV?

Well you could argue the case for the North West is even more pressing, given that most of it is due to be completed before the Thames Valley scheme.  TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) are already borrowing a Class 350 from LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) for driver training ahead of the first section being energised at the end of the year.

We had a bit of a discussion a couple of months ago towards the end of this thread: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12168.30

'Network SouthEast' pointed out that the Southern procurement http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/procurement-of-new-rolling-stock/ for up to 216 vehicles (54 four car sets?) would fit the bill for the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) services very nicely, and it seems strange to specify 110mph trains unless they were eventually intended for the GW^▸ (Great Western) route?  My money would be on those units ending up forming the LTV fleet post-electrification, and whilst I'm not sure how far along that procurement they are, the fact that it started last years means a 2016 deadline should be quite easily met.

[eightf48544]

It will be very intersting if LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) get the new Southern units at the start of the elctrification and then have them replaced by 378 style Crossrail cattle trucks later. Maidonians aren't going to be too happy!

[Network SouthEast]

There may still be LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) services stopping at Maidenhead even when Crossrail starts.

The Crossrail website says:

When it opens in 2018, Crossrail will provide ten trains per hour on the Great Western main line at peak. This will include four trains per hour to Maidenhead, four trains per hour to Heathrow and two trains per hour to West Drayton.

Other operators^ services are assumed to be:

2 trains per hour from Reading calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, Hayes & Harlington and Ealing Broadway to Paddington;
2 trains per hour from Reading calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, Taplow, Burnham and terminating at Slough;
1 through train from Henley on Thames to Paddington; and
1 through train from Bourne End to Paddington

[ChrisB]

Interesting the last two aren't also quoted as being "per hour"...I wonder if the residents on those routes are aware?

[eightf48544]

They are becoming aware, expect to hear a lot from the branches in the next few years.

I take 1 through train to mean just that per day, interesting it doesn't say both ways!

[ChrisB]

I read it as both ways.....