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ChrisB
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« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2011, 11:48:56 » |
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Why on earth should you say that? A rail ticket is a rail ticket, surely?
Does it matter whether its for ^1.50 or ^111.50?
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broadgage
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« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2011, 11:50:43 » |
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Theft is NOT a minor offence.
It's a commercial product, not a right - to travel.
Do you drive off without paying for a tank of fuel? THis is NO different. You have no additional rights to train travel as to a tank of fuel.
You DO have a choice. EIther pay the asking price or don't travel. Period.
Theft is in practice a minor offence, still an offence undoubtably but not a major one unless a great deal of money or monies worth is stolen. Lots of people DO drive off without paying for a tank of fuel, and filling station operators regularly complain that this sort of theft is not taken seriously. Stealing from shops is likewise in practice a minor offence, owners of shops regularly complain that this type of stealing is not taken seriously. I never deliberatly set out to travell without a ticket. If however there is no open ticket office or functioning ticket machine, no checks en route or on arrival, then I dont go so far as to write and send them a cheque ! |
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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Phil
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« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2011, 17:07:31 » |
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If however there is no open ticket office or functioning ticket machine, no checks en route or on arrival, then I don't go so far as to write and send them a cheque !
I think that's a very fair point. Although, now that FGW▸ don't actually accept cheques, I might change my mind on that one in future! |
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thetrout
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« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2011, 21:37:23 » |
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I always try my darned hardest to buy tickets before boarding a train. But there are situations where that simply isn't possible. For example, Frome station doesn't have a ticket office open all day nor a TVM▸ . If I set off to London from there, I board the train and seek out the conductor and ask for a ticket. There have been situations where my travel plans have had to change at very short notice. i.e. when i'm actually on the train, and I may have to travel further. Generally I seek out the conductor and ask for a ticket. I would even go as far as to approach an RPI▸ and ask for an excess ticket. Which I have done before and as I approached them in good faith, I was sold the excess I was after. But if I board a train at Unstaffed/No TVM aka Bruton for example and I travel to Bath Spa. If I can't get a ticket on the train, I will buy a ticket from the Gateline on arrival or the ticket office if the barriers are unmanned. But if both the former and latter are unavailable (such as when the last train of the day leaves) I wouldn't buy a ticket from a TVM because you can't specify the origin station. Nor would I phone them up to pay. I've done my bit by seeking out the conductor on the train. If they can't do their bit to provide a method for me to purchase the correct ticket i need(ed) for my journey, then that's their problem as far as i'm concerned. As an aside. I travelled on a bus last week with my friend. I have a bus pass, my friend doesn't. It turned out the ticket machine wasn't working so the driver couldn't issue us any tickets. He just said to everyone "take a seat". They didn't ask us for names and addresses to write to us to demand payment at a later day (although I suppose they could have). Either way the driver took the bus with about 30 pax 12 miles free of charge. I think the same priniciple applies to the railways. If (in this case the bus company) cannot provide us with a method to buy the correct tickets, then we should still be able to travel regardless as it is a public service. It's not our fault the machine was broken, that's their fault for not maintaining it properly. I for one would have been pretty pi$$ed to be told we couldn't travel because the ticket machine was broken. I'm going to stop there before I step on a landmine  |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2011, 21:59:25 » |
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Bus drivers can't account for money taken if machine isn't working - so its better to let pax travel for free than potentially tempt their staff into pilfering' they have no way of issuing manual tickets
Train managers still, i believe have paper ticket wallets? So they can issue written ticket & therefore account for money taken. As long as they do their job, they should aleays be able to issue ticket on request.
Correct me if I'm wromg about tjose ticket books
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JayMac
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« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2011, 22:24:11 » |
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In the recent past I've seen a bus driver (FirstBus in Somerset) issuing manual tickets from a booklet after his Wayfarer machine died. Two part tear off tickets with tick boxes and a stub filled out by the driver. He had a fare stage sheet as well. He was only issuing singles and returns with this booklet. Those asking for multi-journey tickets were told to purchase on their next bus - I guess because it wasn't possible to issue a manual 'Day' ticket.
I did note that he was keeping a record of 'Day' ticket requests and Concessionary Pass users.
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« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 22:29:48 by bignosemac »
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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thetrout
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« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2011, 00:41:36 » |
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Train managers still, i believe have paper ticket wallets? So they can issue written ticket & therefore account for money taken. As long as they do their job, they should aleays be able to issue ticket on request.
I would disagree with that. I have been in a fair number of incidents when I have asked to buy a ticket from a Guard, and been told they can't sell me one because their Avantix▸ has packed up! Maybe an FGW▸ Staff member can comment on the paper ticket wallets?! |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2011, 08:12:16 » |
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Ok, happy to learn that FGW▸ (all TOCs▸ ?) have hiven these up...
Any staff care to comment?
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Brucey
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« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2011, 08:16:44 » |
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I believe they are still in issue somewhere (as I saw a passenger with a paper ticket last month).
There is, however, an issue of calculating the fare (much easier on buses than trains). Is it worth the conductor and control staff's time to phone through to control to find out the fare when it is only a few pounds?
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ChrisB
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« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2011, 08:32:04 » |
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I guess the fare books are no longer carried either then?
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super tm
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« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2011, 08:56:10 » |
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Train managers still, i believe have paper ticket wallets? So they can issue written ticket & therefore account for money taken. As long as they do their job, they should aleays be able to issue ticket on request.
I would disagree with that. I have been in a fair number of incidents when I have asked to buy a ticket from a Guard, and been told they can't sell me one because their Avantix▸ has packed up! Maybe an FGW▸ Staff member can comment on the paper ticket wallets?! Well ive been working for FGW for 13 years and we have never had paper tickets in that time. So the answer is no we dont have paper tickets any more. We can issue an UFN‡ but to do that we need an advantix to get the ticket price. |
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vacman
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« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2011, 17:12:31 » |
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The paper tickets referred to are known as excess pads, they are no longer issued but I believe there are one or two old school RPI▸ 's in the east that still have them and they are still valid.
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JayMac
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« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2011, 23:39:11 » |
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On the 1903 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach tonight and the conductor's Avantix▸ wasn't working. On leaving Temple Meads he made an announcement saying he would be unable to sell tickets. He also later apologised again approaching Clifton Down, finishing his message with, "so anyone without a ticket - it's your lucky day, enjoy your weekend!" Prior to this two lads had boarded at Stapleton Road and I heard one say, "We're only going to Clifton. If the guard comes round, I'll say to him, 'sh*t, I've forgot my wallet'. Worst he can do is chuck us off at Montpelier." Your classic fare dodgers! So, feeling devilish, I wound them up by saying, "Lads, the guard's machine is broken so you might be okay, but I've heard that an Inspector may be boarding at Redland."  They bailed at Montpelier. |
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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super tm
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« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2011, 08:48:04 » |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2011, 08:54:58 » |
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And how much was the fare they were dodging? Less than a fiver?
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