Fare dodging.

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Following on from some points raised by willc in another thread (see here) I thought I'd start a new thread about the problems of fare dodging. Often seen as a victimless crime with the perpetrators coming from all walks of life. Many see it as a risk worth taking and I have some theories as to why - which I posted on another rail forum some time ago.

It's called human nature. One of our species' evolutionary traits is the desire to get as many resources as possible for as little effort/cost as possible. We often make subconscious decisions on how we obtain those resources. If we can get away with obtaining them at reduced effort/cost, we often will. For the benefit of society as a whole we put in checks and balances (rules and laws) to counteract this individualist evolutionary trait.

When presented with opportunities to get 'something for nothing' our evolutionary hard-wiring often overcomes society's rules and our own moral objection to others behaving in this way. We are therefore happy to exploit lax rule enforcement. If the punishment for getting caught is not seen as too harsh then more people will justify to themselves that it is okay to risk it; this concious decision is underpinned by a strong subconscious evolutionary advantage to the individuals who take said risk. They have saved some of their own resources at the expense of someone else's.

So if there is an opportunity to board a train without a ticket when one was available to purchase beforehand, some people will take it. Balancing the likelihood of facing some form of punishment for this against the likelihood of getting 'something for nothing' will inform the individuals decision. Previous experience (intelligence) and fellow passengers experience (extelligence) also help in making the decision whether to pay or not. Once on board a passenger is far more likely to sit tight in the hope of getting their journey at no cost than to seek out the guard and pay.

There are slightly different evolutionary traits at work when it comes to deliberately intending not to pay. I've not read that bit of Darwin yet!!

Most people are totally oblivious of the serious consequences a conviction for ticketless travel can have. Be it a byelaw conviction or prosecution under the Regulation of Railway Act - many talk themselves into a RRA prosecution ('intent' has to be proved) by trying to talk themselves out of it! Byelaw or RRA, both give you a criminal record.

Finally, I'll add that I have a conviction for ticketless travel. Not something I'm proud of. It happened 8 years ago and I've never not bought a ticket since - when I've had an opportunity to do so. Even when I've got to a destination and had no opportunity to buy beforehand.

[matt473]

I will be honest and admit I sometimes do travel for free, however it is not down to trying to avoid it but not having the opportunity to purchase a ticket. If asked to purchase a ticket I will more than happily purchase it since I am using a the service. However I do not see why I should inconvenience myself and purchase a ticket whilt waiting for a connection for example as I did this once and was made to feel as if I purpousley tried to avoid purchasing a ticket. This attitutude from staff surely does not help passangers who wish to ber fair and honest in regards to paying for travel.

On a side note given how fares keep rising, I do know people that will try to travel for free every so often to make up for ridiculously high fares so they see it as fair. Is this right though morally as they do pay what they view as extortionate fares usually but try to get something back in return?

[ChrisB]

no, it certainly isn't.

Where else do you decide what price to pay for any product? Why is this any different?

[TerminalJunkie]

I will be honest and admit I sometimes do travel for free

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/honest

[Tim]

Well fare dodging is wrong, but many people myslef included do not see it as THAT wrong.  It is certainly in the minor offenses category. 

I would have my sympathy for the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) if their own behaviour wrt to ticketing wasn't so complex and dishonest as to be boardering on fraud at times. 

[ChrisB]

Theft is NOT a minor offence.

It's a commercial product, not a right - to travel.

Do you drive off without paying for a tank of fuel? THis is NO different. You have no additional rights to train travel as to a tank of fuel.

You DO have a choice. EIther pay the asking price or don't travel. Period.

[JayMac]

Interesting last point there ChrisB. What if there is no opportunity to pay? Don't travel?

Here's an example. You do a journey from Stapleton Road to Montpelier. Both unmanned stations with no full TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) (Montpelier has a basic ticket machine but it only offers tickets to Bristol Temple Meads). The guard doesn't get round to you before Montpelier. How do you pay for your journey then? And because you couldn't, should you not have travelled in the first place?

The industry needs to do a lot more to prevent unintentional ticket-less travel. It's not good enough to just say "Either pay the asking price or don't travel."

I now do my damnedest to ensure I have a valid ticket for the trains I am on, but there are occasions when, through the inadequacies of the railways, I have either travelled free (unmanned, un-TVMed station both ends, no opportunity on board) or got to a destination (manned but unbarriered) where I could get away without paying. In that second scenario I would always go to the ticket office. If there was only a TVM at my destination I would still travel free. Can't buy a ticket from my origin station at a destination TVM.

Ticket-less travel does cost the industry millions, but a fair proportion of that is down to the railways own inadequacies.

[JayMac]

Well fare dodging is wrong, but many people myslef included do not see it as THAT wrong.  It is certainly in the minor offenses category. 

A criminal record is a criminal record. Minor offence or not. Can affect job prospects, foreign travel opportunities, ability to obtain insurance......

[Brucey]

I've travelled for free on a number of occassions.  All SVB line journeys with no way of paying the fare.  Most times, I've paid a full return on my way home.  But on single journeys, for the sake of 75p, I'm not going to go out of my way to make payment.

A criminal record is a criminal record. Minor offence or not. Can affect job prospects, foreign travel opportunities, ability to obtain insurance......

In my short stint at an insurance company, I had a phone call from a policyholder who had just been convicted of "travelling or attempting to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof".  At renewal, his policy had to be referred to an underwriter.  I don't know quite how much the price increased by, but I remember it was a similar amount to the loading imposed on people convicted of fraud by false representation.

[ChrisB]

Here's an example. You do a journey from Stapleton Road to Montpelier. Both unmanned stations with no full TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) (Montpelier has a basic ticket machine but it only offers tickets to Bristol Temple Meads). The guard doesn't get round to you before Montpelier. How do you pay for your journey then? And because you couldn't, should you not have travelled in the first place?

no, of course not. But where you can pay, you ought to pay. Again, period.

The industry needs to do a lot more to prevent unintentional ticket-less travel. It's not good enough to just say "Either pay the asking price or don't travel."

I was referring to the post above mine.

If there was only a TVM at my destination I would still travel free. Can't buy a ticket from my origin station at a destination TVM.

If you want a return, it doesn't usually matter if you buy the ticket the wrong way around - the fare, outside London, is usually the same in either direction - or it certainly ought to be! you could buy a single the wrong way round too, if you wwere totally honest....

[Phil]

Ticket-less travel does cost the industry millions, but a fair proportion of that is down to the railways own inadequacies.

Must confess I have often wondered, and even wondered aloud on here long ago I do believe, whether the millions lost through ticketless travel isn't actually a lot more than the money that could have been spent on having properly manned stations or at least ticket halls and barriers throughout the network.

[JayMac]

you could buy a single the wrong way round too, if you wwere totally honest....

But then I haven't bought a valid ticket for my journey!  

Can't say for definite that the 'reverse' journey is exactly the same. Fare may be different. Restrictions may be different.

No, if the railways have been unable or unwilling to provide facilities for the sale of the correct ticket then I don't see it as my responsibility to purchase an incorrect product just to appear 'honest'.

I've said before - I'll go out of my way to try my damnedest to buy the correct ticket(s). If I can't, I won't.

[bambam]

I will be honest and admit I sometimes do travel for free

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/honest

whats your point. hes tried to pay.

Theft is NOT a minor offence.

It's a commercial product, not a right - to travel.

Do you drive off without paying for a tank of fuel? THis is NO different. You have no additional rights to train travel as to a tank of fuel.

You DO have a choice. EIther pay the asking price or don't travel. Period.

Theft CAN be a minor offense. shoplifting, a type of theft usually only gets a caution.
Saying travel is a commercial product is your opinion, not a fact. You could say food is a commercial product, but im sure you wouldn't do without it.

[Phil]

Just to blur the edges somewhat (and hopefully diffuse what shows every sign of turning into a heated debate - play nicely please chaps!), where does the panel stand on this?

Someone I know just confessed to having travelled ticketless today. He fare dodged, in other words.

He is in fact in possession of a railcard and up to date season ticket valid for that route - a journey of an hour or so with one change - but he left it at home and was running late so today he decided to "wing it". And he got away with it.

Obviously I informed him this was Wrong and Stupid but in point of fact - where does he actually stand? If required by a court of law to produce a valid ticket for the journey he could actually have done so; but not on the train itself, as on this one occasion he didn't actually have one with him. And yet he HAS paid, so morally is he in the right?

[JayMac]

In that particular scenario, the requirement to produce a ticket or other valid authority to travel has to be done at the time requested. Whether you are able to later produce tickets etc in court* would be neither here nor there in the eyes of the law. The offence has already been committed and with a byelaw prosecution for ticket-less travel being 'strict liability' there is very little wriggle room.

Law doesn't really do "morally he was in the right" as a defence. Particularly with 'strict liability' offences.

*It may be possible to forestall prosecution in this scenario by settling out of court. Showing contrition to the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company), apologising and paying the fare for the journey on which you were caught along with a sum to cover the TOCs costs. That is entirely at the TOCs discretion though and they don't have to accept a settlement.