Gloucester - station, facilities, services, events & incidents (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[bobm]

The YouTube video from which the stills were taken on Page 45 can be found here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ntnt4DL60&list=TLW9k3I4Qf2zna7LqcyuZNlApThV-hz8IE

Scary stuff

[paul7575]

The YouTube video from which the stills were taken on Page 45 can be found here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ntnt4DL60&list=TLW9k3I4Qf2zna7LqcyuZNlApThV-hz8IE

Scary stuff

Note the comments under the video.  "the track was safe to run at that speed , as a BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Tracklayer i have a lot worse and at faster speeds." 

Paul

[Trowres]

The 83 page report has relatively little to say about the train continuing its progress for four miles following derailment, until the signaller concluded that the growing list of track circuit failures (and a point detection failure) warranted stopping the train for examination.

The report refers to a couple of European standards bodies/committees and their analysis of wagon derailment monitoring equipment, which apparently concluded that

the cost of fitting and maintaining derailment detectors
could not be justified on safety grounds alone. There was a better case for
fitment based on economic grounds, in terms of less infrastructure damage to
repair after a derailment

Now these things are difficult to quantify. The conclusions may well be justified if spending that money elsewhere could prodice a safer railway.

However, beware of "black swans" - things that happen in defiance of conventional risk analysis. Beware also of creeping changes in practice that cause risks to grow and have contributed to some of the major rail incidents of modern times.

This particular derailment was a consequence of dodgy track on a secondary route, but some other type of derailment causing four miles of damage with possible running foul of adjacent lines...platforms...on a busy route could be a lot worse in impact - and even without injuries, closing the line for several days.

I don't particularly wish to lead a demand for ever-more safery paraphernalia. But as the eyes and ears that may detect such derailments are removed from trains...signalboxes...stations...crossings...I don't wish us to sleep-walk into another version of Newton, Hatfield or Southall.

[JayMac]

One of the toughest, most highly technical, RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) reports I've read. Hard work.

However, having met an RAIB Investigator, and hearing first hand how they go about the job, I fully understand the need to cover all aspects of an incident, no matter how small or inconsequential those aspects may appear. Or how deeply technical the investigation has to be.

It's worth noting that in this particular incident if the wagon had derailed to the right, and there was a another train passing on the down line, the consequences of this cyclic top phenomenon could have been far worse.

[Worcester_Passenger]

It's worth noting that in this particular incident if the wagon had derailed to the right, and there was a another train passing on the down line, the consequences of this cyclic top phenomenon could have been far worse.

I thought it did derail to the right.

[JayMac]

Yes., sorry. I meant to say further to the right. The leading wheelset of the final bogie stayed on the rails until it encountered the second check rail near Gloucester, until this point the trailing wheelset stayed roughly in line with the tracks.

[Worcester_Passenger]

One of the toughest, most highly technical, RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) reports I've read. Hard work.

Agree completely.

A technical question. In the days when Eurostar used to operate out of Waterloo, there used to be a bit of track just out of Waterloo where the train always ended up bouncing. Was that down to cyclic top - or something else?

[4064ReadingAbbey]

A technical question. In the days when Eurostar used to operate out of Waterloo, there used to be a bit of track just out of Waterloo where the train always ended up bouncing. Was that down to cyclic top - or something else?

Once upon a time I lived near Paris and a near neighbour was BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))'s commissioning engineer for the Eurostar trains. I recall talking to him one evening over a glass of wine (as one does) about the articulation used in the TGVs^▸ (Train a Grande Vitesse) and the Eurostars and this may explain the effect you noticed. The linkage between the coaches is such that the coach ends can hinge (for curves) and twist relative to each each other but not pitch. This means that the whole train rises and falls together on its suspension. For reasons I can't remember this meant that dampers were not needed across the primary suspension which as a result could be excited into resonance at certain speeds. (As an aside the lack of these dampers is one of the reasons for the silky smooth ride of the TGVs). From memory these speeds were near 40mph and 60mph, which could happen quite frequently in south London on the the route out of Waterloo, but was not such a problem in France where trains got going more smartly! To avoid too much discomfort little white stickers were attached to the speedometers as a reminder to the drivers to avoid these speeds.

Could this correspond with the effect you noticed?

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Gloucester Citizen:

Derelict land to provide 220 new car parking spaces for Gloucester Railway Station after deal struck


Gloucester MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Richard Graham by the derelict land

A deal has been struck for Great Western Railway to develop unused land beside Great Western Road into a new additional station car park.

It will have room for 220 spaces and have access to Gloucester Railway Station for the first time from the south side.

Gloucester MP Richard Graham has been campaigning for this to become a reality for some time and last year he won the support of the Department for Transport and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in the latter's three year franchise extension.

Now the land sale has been agreed by the Ministry of Justice with the Gloucester City Council, following many months of talks with the City Council's Regeneration Team and further questions by the city MP to the MoJ, after an earlier Westminster Hall debate on the issue.

Working in partnership with GWR, Gloucester City Council expects the car park and access will be finished by the end of 2017.

"I'm delighted we now have a definite go ahead and GWR has a planning application in," said Mr Graham. "It will be good for rail passengers, traffic flows, access to and from the hospital and overall city growth and regeneration. I'm very grateful to all those involved for their hard work in making this happen."

Matthew Golton, commercial development director for GWR said: "This is excellent news for our customers, and brings a new car park with more than 200 extra spaces for Gloucester station much closer. We have submitted a planning application, and will continue to work with Gloucester Council, the Department for Transport and Richard Graham MP to deliver this much needed improvement for our customers."

City Council Leader Paul James said: "We are delighted that we have been able to play a central role. This represents major investment in our city, and underlines the importance of the railway station to Gloucester and nearby residents. Linked to the new bus station this part of Gloucester is going to be transformed."

[Charles T]

If you are unfortunate to arrive at Platform 1 in Gloucester, your first impression is that you got off the train too early.  It is a very long walk to Platform 2 and the exit.  Perhaps a narrow gauge track could be laid on along the platform. 

Really? I went to Reading from platform 1 today, I prefer it due to the waiting room that has heating in.

[LiskeardRich]

http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/train-crash-near-gloucester-station-causing-long-delays-while-investigation-on-going/story-30056676-detail/story.html

There are delays at Gloucester Railway Station after a crash between two trains near the station.

Delays of up to 50 minutes are expected following the collision between two trains earlier this evening.

The crash happened at 'very low speed' according to Three Counties Transport Police.

Great Western Railway expects the delays to last until the end of the day's service.

Fewer trains are running from Gloucester while the investigation is underway.

The issue is currently under investigation by Great Western Railway. No one is thought to have been injured in the crash.

150938 and 150265 involved,

If I'm not mistaken 150938 is the hybrid formed from the unit involved in the Plymouth collision last year?

[phile]

http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/train-crash-near-gloucester-station-causing-long-delays-while-investigation-on-going/story-30056676-detail/story.html

There are delays at Gloucester Railway Station after a crash between two trains near the station.

Delays of up to 50 minutes are expected following the collision between two trains earlier this evening.

The crash happened at 'very low speed' according to Three Counties Transport Police.

Great Western Railway expects the delays to last until the end of the day's service.

Fewer trains are running from Gloucester while the investigation is underway.

The issue is currently under investigation by Great Western Railway. No one is thought to have been injured in the crash.

150938 and 150265 involved,

If I'm not mistaken 150938 is the hybrid formed from the unit involved in the Plymouth collision last year?

Correct.  A vehicle from 150219

[CMRail]

Was becoming off topic in the FTFB thread so moved here.

I was also told that Gloucester would go to West Midlands signalling centre rather than Didcot.

Apparently they considered bidirectional signalling at Cheltenham but decided against. Apparently at Gloucester platform 1 is not long enough for the nine cars even, but it is possible to move signals back on platform 2 and 1.

I would like to see the reverse time improvements because it promotes more trains to call at Gloucester. I have also noticed decreased use of Platform 1 recently with only Great Malverns using the platform. Use of platform 3 more would be great but rail travel is more focused towards Cheltenham now. It’s used under 8 times a day which is unfortunate.

[SandTEngineer]

I was also told that Gloucester would go to West Midlands signalling centre rather than Didcot.

I did post in the F4T topic that there are some big NR^» (Network Rail - home page) boundary changes being planned that will put Gloucester and Cheltenham into the Midlands Territory.  TVSC^» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) is full and cannot accomodate any more territory without major building works (hence the talked about plan for Exeter Panel to become a ROC^▸ (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region)). I also think that NR are begining to realise that putting 'all your eggs in one basket' is asking for trouble if something serious was to happen.

Anyway, we need to wait and see once the CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) plans are firmed up.

[Dispatch Box]

I Think the best and cheapest way to resignal Gloucester would be to convert the panel box into a ROC^▸ (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region) or small I.E.C.C. This would be more practical as the Horton Road crossing poses safety issues, with people as I was told by platform staff, jumping over barriers. So it needs a person high up in a building to oversee it. The work station in there could contain only 4 monitors and could be placed across the back wall. Then the panel would be ripped out and a nice desk housing all of the monitors for the crossings. I also can see that there is a large relay room underneath it which could house most of the control boxes and probably save on REB Cabinets.