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Author Topic: Split ticket options......Bristol to liverpool to peterborough  (Read 7205 times)
Mookiemoo
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« on: April 20, 2011, 11:57:32 »

For this Monday...

Trying to see if I can be bothered to go see mommy
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
ChrisB
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2011, 12:03:25 »

Cheltenham, Birmingham & London Midland to/from Birmingham
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JayMac
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2011, 19:38:26 »

Bristol to Hereford Standard Class Anytime Day Single* (^21.30 or ^23.60 from Nailsea), travel short to Birmingham on any XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service. Birmingham to Stafford single (^9.20 peak/^9.00 off peak), then Stafford to Liverpool Virgin Trains Only fare - First Class from Stafford to Liverpool (VT (Virgin Trains - former franchise (or, possibly, in a France context, Versement Transport - a payroll tax on employers to fund local transport) ) Only) is quite reasonable at ^22. Standard Class ^19.50 peak, ^18.50 off peak. Again both VT Only.

After that you're on your own, but I'd suggest looking at Advance Purchase for Liverpool to Peterborough!

*This fare is routed 'Any Permitted' and the Routeing Guide allows Bristol to Hereford via Birmingham. So end your journey at Brum, travelling short. It's a darn sight cheaper than the BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-BHM fare and about ^7 cheaper than splitting at Cheltenham.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 19:52:31 by bignosemac » Logged

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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2011, 10:39:45 »

Thanks

I'll be starting from Bristol if I do make the journey - I'll know by sunday night which leaves the AP option open for the peterborough leg
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2011, 11:44:48 »

Bristol to Hereford Standard Class Anytime Day Single* (^21.30 or ^23.60 from Nailsea), travel short to Birmingham on any XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service.
*This fare is routed 'Any Permitted' and the Routeing Guide allows Bristol to Hereford via Birmingham. So end your journey at Brum, travelling short. It's a darn sight cheaper than the BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-BHM fare and about ^7 cheaper than splitting at Cheltenham.

I'm impressed to learn that you're allowed to do Bristol - Hereford via B'ham. Given the loss of the direct LM (London Midland - recent franchise) service to Cheltenham, the journey planner often tells me to travel from Worcester via B'ham, but I've always assumed that that's not a permitted route.
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brompton rail
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2011, 14:59:17 »

Interestingly when I put Bristol TM (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) to Hereford into East Coast's system it gives travel via Newport and the ^21-30 single, but add via Brum and it says no fares available.
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JayMac
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2011, 16:45:02 »

Indeed. The fares system will not show the route as available, but the ticket has 'Any Permitted' printed on it and one of the mapped routes for Bristol - Hereford shows Birmingham as a potential via point. Possibly an error in the Routeing Guide but it's there and in the public domain and if it is  an error it wasn't corrected in the most recent revision.

It may not be logical to go that way when travelling to Hereford, but since when was the Routeing Guide ever logical?  Wink Grin

Still, the illogical routeing throws up a handy saving for travel to Brum and I'm all for that!
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ChrisB
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2011, 16:46:23 »

Hmmm - you might have fun persuading the XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) gripper....
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JayMac
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2011, 16:49:00 »

Done the trip numerous times and have yet to have an XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) gripper disallow the ticket. One even said, "Ah, using the Routeing Guide are you? Bet your not going to Hereford."

I wasn't. I was going to Liverpool!

But as a caveat, there is the potential for a XC TM (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) to disallow. In which case I'd ask for a UPFN (Un Paid Fare Notice (used on XC)) and then write to XC with details of the relevant Routeing Guide map.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2011, 22:15:00 »

QED.  Lips sealed
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.

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Brucey
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2011, 09:36:37 »

Bristol to Hereford Standard Class Anytime Day Single* (^21.30 or ^23.60 from Nailsea)
Watch out with the return fares.  The "no-time restriction" SVR has restriction code 8A, which says on the outward journey
Break of journey is not       
permitted except to change   
trains at an intermediate     
station or to access station 
facilities.                   
The CDR (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) and SDS appear to have no such restriction.
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JayMac
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2011, 14:36:55 »

And almost impossible to enforce. You'd have to be followed by an extremely zealous RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector, or Retail Price Index, depending on context). You could access station facilities for hours if you wished.....

And with a legitimate change of trains being a walk between Birmingham New Street and Birmingham Moor St, how is that walk enforced? Again you'd need to be followed. Do you have to stick to a set route? Are you allowed to do some shopping or have lunch en route?

So, a rather silly rule in this instance, but yes, you're not supposed to break your journey (including travelling short) on the outward with the SVR, but the OP (Original Poster / topic starter)'s journey required single fares so no problems there.

Of course, I don't condone rule breaking. Just highlighting the silliness.  Wink
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JayMac
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2011, 00:08:10 »

And, something else to throw into the mix.

You can, of course, split the Bristol to Birmingham part of the journey at Cheltenham as ChrisB originally suggested. However there's no need to buy a Cheltenham to Birmingham Standard Anytime Single at ^20.50. You can instead buy a Cheltenham (CNM» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains)) to Bromsgrove (BMV) Standard Anytime Day Single at ^9.80 and travel to Birmingham (ending short) courtesy of this easement from the Routeing Guide:

Quote
300422 Customers travelling from Bromsgrove via Cheltenham Spa may travel via Birmingham New Street. This easement applies in both directions.

 Roll Eyes Wink Grin

Again, the same caveat applies as mentioned earlier. Being armed with a print-out of the relevant section of the RG should help smooth any potential difference of opinion from on train staff.

As always, I provide the advice merely to show what the potential cheapest fare could be. Whether you act on that advice is entirely up to you. As is whether you decide to arm yourself with the evidence from the Routeing Guide. Some folks won't want the hassle and will weigh up the potential saving versus the potential hassle. I can respect that. My experience having travelled this route with XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), on both the the BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-HFD» (Hereford - next trains) fare and the CNM-BMV fare, is that I've yet to experience any problems. Tickets queried yes, but by explaining how they're legitimate according the Routeing Guide has seen XC TMs (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) allow me on my way.

Now, I'm aware that publicising these legitimate loopholes may see them closed in the future and I've had heated debates on another forum about whether certain loopholes should be discussed publicly. However, I'm of the opinion that these workarounds shouldn't only be there for a select few to share privately - that smacks of an "I know know something you don't" attitude that I'm not comfortable with. Why should I save money with my knowledge of the fares system and not others? Yes, I could've replied to the OP (Original Poster / topic starter) on this thread by PM but can I really add a condition to my advice saying "keep this to yourself"?

Of course, I run the risk, by providing this information publicly, of seeing these loopholes closed. I'm comfortable with that. It's a bit of a game. With such a complex fares system there are always going to be legitimate workarounds. I'm aware of examples where one loophole has been closed only to open another on the same route. Such is the nature of our current fragmented rail network. I make no apologies for highlighting these loopholes and potentially depriving the TOCs (Train Operating Company) of what they see should be the correct fare for a particular journey. They are responsible (through ATOC» (Association of Train Operating Companies see - here)) for the massively complex system currently in place, so they get little sympathy from me when I, or others I provide the advice to, pay less than the TOCs believe should be paid for a particular journey.

It's not just me. Andrew Adonis made great play about the value that an All-Line Rail Rover could offer when he was SoS at the DfT» (Department for Transport - about). Consequently savvy business people realised the 1st Class 7 day ALR (All Line Rover) could be better value than just two 1st Class Anytime Returns in a week on certain journeys. ATOCs response? Put a 10am restriction on the ALR for flows into/out of London, surrounding major stations and Birmingham. Kudos to FGW (First Great Western) for not agreeing to that restriction however. And there is still a legitimate workaround to avoid that 10am restriction at very small additional cost.....
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2011, 07:23:29 »

Thanks all!

I won't be going on Monday but I will be at some point so this is all helpful!!!!!!!!  I have too much to do due to distractions in my life to waste a long weeked schlepping to scouseland!

And it wasnt exactly fun when she was here!
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Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
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