Can Exeter to Penzance be speeded up?

[whole diary]

[woody]

Travelling back from Exeter to Plymouth today on the 1406 Paddington to Penzance HST^▸ (High Speed Train) the woman beside me said to me that she was on her way from Maidenhead to Cornwall but was puzzled why the journey from Paddington to Exeter was always so quick but that from Exeter to Cornwall was so slow adding that she always noticed cars on the A38 dual carraigeway near South Brent in South Devon were frequently over-taking the train.^Cant they speed it up^ she asked,adding that when she lived in Cheshire she was only 2 hours by rail from London but her journey to Cornwall takes over 4 hours.
I explained to her that track geometry severely limits line speeds between Exeter and Penzance because the line was built with sharp curves and gradients and short of building a brand new line which would be too expensive there is little that can be done.
^Cant the train go faster around the curves or would it come off the track^ she replied.Yes it could go faster around the curves but it would be very uncomfortable for the passengers as they were tossed to and fro which led me to explain Virgin Trains West Coast main line ^tilting^ solution to that problem along with the huge cost implications.Finally she said ^Well I suppose its not too bad then^.
   What do you think and what would you have said to her?

[LiskeardRich]

i would of asked her
would you prefer comfort, or being slung round like your on a rollercoaster

[vacman]

Exeter to Pz could be made nearly 40 mins quicker by taking out some stops!
once ran fast Ply-Pnz, took 1hr 16 mins, so if you only stopped at Bod and Tru on even just one service a day then you could do Pz to Pad in just over 4 hours!

[bobm]

I think part of it is down to perception - you expect an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to go faster.  I regularly travel beyond Plymouth and while sometimes it is on the sleeper I do use day trains.  On occasions I have had to use the Penzance to Plymouth trains and change there for an HST.  Somehow with all the noise and inferior suspension those trains have they give the impression of going faster.  Personally I'd prefer the comfort of an HST anyday.

I am not sure missing out stops is commercially viable.  Even with the re-doubling a few years ago I do not believe there is the capacity in both track and rolling stock to run additional services to "mop up" those missed out by an express service that only calls at a few stations.

[devon_metro]

The journey from Exeter to Newton Abbot is fine. Somewhat tiresome reading that it is a 60mph secondary line, which it is not.

[paul7575]

The journey from Exeter to Newton Abbot is fine. Somewhat tiresome reading that it is a 60mph secondary line, which it is not.

Quite right - it doesn't become a secondary route until west of Plymouth acording to NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s route plan diagram.

Paul

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

i would love for someone to actually do a race during peak time from exeter to newton abbot,bets on the train for me, i hate penn inn roundabout!... if you have to drive tho try the a38 and off at heathfield and go in that way down the a382 avoiding penn inn

[devon_metro]

I suspect you are correct, the Penn Inn is often stacked a fair distance on the A380 at peak times, then again - the outside lane moves much quicker and this is the one you need if heading into Newton Abbot town centre.

[The Grecian]

This website might be of some interest to some people as it shows how fast in theory trains could go between stops:

http://www.railperf.org.uk/fastest.php

So for instance Exeter-Plymouth each way can apparently be done in around 46-47 minutes. Having said that, this is probably based partly on performances when speed limits were more liberally interpreted and partly on trains having a clear run. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could probably speed some services up but due to penalties for poor performance and the difficulty of running trains with less recovery time if anything goes wrong, I doubt FGW would want to do so.

The population spread of Deb'n and Kernow means that there'll always be plenty of people using Newton Abbot and Totnes as a railhead, particularly from Torquay and Paignton respectively, while in Cornwall the fact that there are no towns with more than 40,000 people unless you lump Redruth and Camborne together, but plenty with 10,000-20,000 means that it makes more sense to serve lots of stations than a few.

On a similar note, East Coast are planning to run Edinburgh-Kings Cross in 4 hours exactly from May, stopping at Newcastle only. It'll be interesting to see how long that survives given the limited recovery time.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

This website might be of some interest to some people as it shows how fast in theory trains could go between stops:

http://www.railperf.org.uk/fastest.php

So for instance Exeter-Plymouth each way can apparently be done in around 46-47 minutes. Having said that, this is probably based partly on performances when speed limits were more liberally interpreted and partly on trains having a clear run. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could probably speed some services up but due to penalties for poor performance and the difficulty of running trains with less recovery time if anything goes wrong, I doubt FGW would want to do so.

The population spread of Deb'n and Kernow means that there'll always be plenty of people using Newton Abbot and Totnes as a railhead, particularly from Torquay and Paignton respectively, while in Cornwall the fact that there are no towns with more than 40,000 people unless you lump Redruth and Camborne together, but plenty with 10,000-20,000 means that it makes more sense to serve lots of stations than a few.

On a similar note, East Coast are planning to run Edinburgh-Kings Cross in 4 hours exactly from May, stopping at Newcastle only. It'll be interesting to see how long that survives given the limited recovery time.

humm im not sure on this here is an example

Date                     Train                                         Class   Loco     Time
Sat 4 Oct 1986   1015 Exeter St Davids - Yeovil Junction   142   142021   63:21

[vacman]

i would love for someone to actually do a race during peak time from exeter to newton abbot,bets on the train for me, i hate penn inn roundabout!... if you have to drive tho try the a38 and off at heathfield and go in that way down the a382 avoiding penn inn

Exeter to Newton Abbot isn't that slow, part of it is 100mph.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

120 in a vauxhall viraro 

[woody]

i would love for someone to actually do a race during peak time from exeter to newton abbot,bets on the train for me, i hate penn inn roundabout!... if you have to drive tho try the a38 and off at heathfield and go in that way down the a382 avoiding penn inn

Exeter to Newton Abbot isn't that slow, part of it is 100mph.

As you say Vacman  Exeter to Newton Abbot is certainly not slow,but unfortunately it is only a small part of the overall journey from Exeter to Penzance which is percieved as slow by some.The phrase "West of Exeter" was made to me by a woman travelling to Cornwall not Newton Abbot which is just 20 minutes from Exeter.That being said it has not put off the Canadian Olympic Diving Team choosing Plymouth as their Pre-Olympic Training base http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/9454018.stm apparently citing on local radio that they were happy with the fact that they were under three and a half hours rail journey time to London from Plymouth.

[inspector_blakey]

I think when you're from Canada a three-and-a-half-hour train journey is seen in a somewhat different context, as almost "just down the road". I took a two-day train journey there a few years ago and only made it halfway across the country! In the course of said journey we only really passed two major population centres.

[LiskeardRich]

120 in a vauxhall viraro 

mercedes vito and/or sprinter are quicker