Richard Wilson to present documentary about today's railways.

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

Grahame moved my post & changed the subject line which referred to the link - so he's partly to blame - but still the link was there & you should read all of someone's post before criticising it, IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion).

Gentlemen, please! 

It wasn't grahame, it was me: I moved / merged these two topics because they cover exactly the same subject: a television programme to be aired next Monday and various comments that are being made about it, in the press and among our posters, beforehand.

I left the individual topic headings of all posts unchanged, to try to avoid just such a misunderstanding.

Chris. 

[Timmer]

I did read the article thanks Chris which is referring to the program so you saying:

It's a nonsense, from beginning to end....

Now I take it that you are referring to the program and not the article. Why do I come to that conclusion because no doubt the photo of Richard Wilson is a shot from the actual program so I take it that you are having a go at the actual program. Perhaps if you said 'The whole article is a nonsense from beginning to end, then I would not have posted what I did a few minutes ago. 

[Timmer]

It wasn't grahame, it was me: I moved / merged these two topics because they cover exactly the same subject: a television programme to be aired next Monday and various comments that are being made about it, in the press and among our posters, beforehand.

Well it hasn't aired yet but it sure has got people talking  I wonder if its getting quite a bit of press attention because it's presented by a high profile celeb?

[ChrisB]

It wasn't grahame, it was me:
I left the individual topic headings of all posts unchanged, to try to avoid just such a misunderstanding.

So you did.

Now I take it that you are referring to the program and not the article. Why do I come to that conclusion because no doubt the photo of Richard Wilson is a shot from the actual program so I take it that you are having a go at the actual program.

No, I'm referring to the webpage that I quoted at the top of my post. Sorry, Timmer, but you've jumped to the wrong conclusion & should admit it.

[Timmer]

No, I'm referring to the webpage that I quoted at the top of my post. Sorry, Timmer, but you've jumped to the wrong conclusion & should admit it.

Chris I cannot do that because you titled your post

Channel 4 / Evening Standard Hatchet Job on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)

That says to me that you are criticising both Channel 4's documentary and the Evening Standard.

I don't want this to drag on and risk the topic being locked because this is a good discussion that I'm sure many posters will want to comment on once the program has aired.

People who know me well know that I am always the first to put my hand up when I get it wrong Chris. On this occasion I didn't so cannot admit to something that I did not do.

[ChrisB]

I could agree with youif I had not posted that link and then commented underneath. This then was obviously a reference to what was cinrained within it. It is a standard way of posting on all other boards, forums and google-groups that I belong to, regardless of subject.

Perhaps this is a lesson to moderators that simply merge posts that are either stand-alone or similar in subject - you may need to add a comment to retain its meaning

[JayMac]

And possibly a lesson to forum members to search and see if there is an existing thread running on a particular topic.

[grahame]

And in reallity, gentlemen, there's often no perfect solution.  Sometimes the moderator ends up having to make a quick decision between (a) and (b), knowing that whatever (s)he does it's may catch a few people out and/or upsetting a few people, and that those people will the have the luxury of time to think and hindsight from which to launch their criticism of him/her.   Thank goodness that the moderator's role is - for the most part - help and guidance, summarising and seeding questions, clarifying, welcoming and directing.

I've worked with other moderator teams in the past, and can compare.  Moderation will never be perfect for everyone, but the quality here is excellent  and I don't say a public "thank you" to the team often enough.  ChrisB - we're happy to look / see how other boards do things, and what we learn forms much of what we do.   But that's not today we simply follow and copy;  we would end up with a "me too" forum and that's not the intent.   The intent is to provide a friendly place where occasional travellers feel that their questions can be asked and answered, and they'll get a warm welcome even if they don't know the relative acceleration of a 150 v a 158.

I suppose with Richard Wilson's reputation of playing a grumpy old man, this thread was bound to go a bit that way, wasn't it?

[Phil]

I wonder if its getting quite a bit of press attention because it's presented by a high profile celeb?

I feel I should admit here that I actually had no idea who Richard Wilson was or is, and having Googled it my reaction was along the lines of, "Oh him! Didn't he used to be on TV years ago?"

If the intention therefore was in fact to gain some extra attention by using a "celeb", I'm afraid it was completely wasted on me - and presumably there's others out there like me as well...

[Bob_Blakey]

I sincerely hope the accuracy of the programme is better than the following extract from the Daily Mirror Online:

Wilson, 74, famous for being grumpy Victor Meldrew, gets very frustrated with the automated ticket system as he tries to go from Manchester Victoria to Harrowgate.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/tv/2011/03/04/richard-wilson-comes-over-all-victor-meldrew-as-he-investigates-britain-s-train-networks-115875-22964520/

[ChrisB]

ChrisB - we're happy to look / see how other boards do things, and what we learn forms much of what we do. 

Thanks - In my view, the thing to have done here would for the Mod to IM / PM me, quoting my post in full so I still had it, and pointing out (with a link) that there was already a thread running. At vwhich point my post / new thread could be removed.

Then I could have edited anything from my post (which is now in a IM/PM) that was still relevant & not already addressed / posted in the already-running thread, and posted afresh into that.

Simples!

[JayMac]

An example of a BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Documentary from the early 1990s focusing on Network SouthEast. Some perennial problems!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-peIDOiTt8&feature=related

In five parts, link above is part one.

[Timmer]

Getting a little off topic but can anyone remember a BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) documentary that was done around the mid 80s on Waterloo station and is it on Youtube? I have looked without success and would love to see it again.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) press release:

Train companies respond to Channel 4 Dispatches programme

In response to the Channel 4 Dispatches programme on the railways, a spokesperson for the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) said:

^The railways are attracting record numbers of passengers. With 1.32billion journeys made by train in 2010, the railways carried more passengers in a peacetime year than at any time since the late 1920s.

^According to Passenger Focus, the independent watchdog, more passengers than ever are happy with their journey. Punctuality is at historically high levels, and we now have one of the safest railways in Europe. These improvements show how train operators are committed to providing the high quality services that passengers expect and deserve.
 
^But we are not complacent and are always working to make services better for passengers which is why we are investing millions in improving information for passengers, and to provide better stations, more trains and faster services.
 
^Giving train companies greater freedom from central prescription would allow them to respond even better and quicker to passengers^ concerns. That is why we are making proposals to Government on how the industry can continue to improve services for passengers and deliver better value for money for taxpayers.^

Fares
From the daily commute to visiting family on a long distance journey, passengers use the railway in very different ways and understandably expect a range of fares to suit their needs. To meet these expectations, train companies have to get the balance right between periods of high and low demand in every part of the country while ensuring there are always cheap fares available.
 
The vast majority of passengers buy and travel on the right tickets. Most travel on some kind of discounted fare, for example, on Off-Peak, Season or Advance fare tickets. Every week, passengers purchase around 800,000 cheap Advance tickets.

Buying the correct ticket is pretty straightforward. Wherever they can, people should book early and avoid busy times of the day. Young people, those over 60 and many families can get a third off most fares with a Railcard. Or you can go to the National Rail Enquiries website, paid for and run by train companies, which has up to date information on the best deals.

Which?
The Which? survey was seriously misleading and misrepresentative. Asking 150 questions mostly based on unrealistic and obscure scenarios cannot come close to giving a representative view of the 1.3 billion journeys that are made every year by train.

The magazine also claimed that they asked ^about the cheapest fares^ but what they failed to tell their readers was that they explicitly excluded the cheapest fares in almost every question they asked.
 
Tens of thousands of passengers have no problem buying and travelling on the cheapest fares every day but we understand the frustration of those who feel they have not been able to buy the right ticket which is why we are working to continue improving services for passengers.
 
Monitoring and enforcement policies
There are safeguards in place to ensure that people who have been unable to buy the right ticket are not given a penalty fare. Train company staff use their discretion where people have genuinely had problems getting a ticket. Staff on trains and at stations are also kept fully up to date about ticket machines which may not be working and ticket offices that are closed.

However, train companies have to take a firm but fair approach on ticket enforcement to stop a small minority costing the railways millions of pounds every year because they choose to travel without a valid ticket. We estimate the railways lose up to ^190m a year, money which could pay for the lease of up to 1,500 extra carriages or the upkeep of around 380 stations for around the next five years.

Unregulated fares
Half the cost of running the railways comes from the taxpayer, the other half from passengers. The level of fares is determined largely as a result of Government policy which aims to reduce the contribution from taxpayers and increase what passengers pay.

About half of fares are directly regulated according to a formula linked to the rate of inflation. The rest are set by train companies as part of the financial commitments they have to meet and which are set out in the contracts they sign with the Government to run services. So in effect although these fares are known as unregulated fares, the level at which they are set is actually driven by Government policy on rail funding, which currently is that passengers should pay more.

Overcrowding
Overcrowding is a big concern for train companies. More and more people are travelling by train ^ a sign of the success of the railways. But when customers are unhappy, then that^s bad news for us. Train companies, wherever possible, seek to ease overcrowding and we welcome the Government^s recent announcements on new trains.

But to a large extent the prescriptive nature of franchise agreements set out by civil servants restrict what train companies can do. We want to run even more services and address overcrowding, allowing train companies to use more of their commercial nous to tackle these kinds of issues. Train companies need to be freed up from interference from civil servants and be allowed to tackle overcrowding quickly and effectively themselves.

National Rail Enquiries - TrainTracker
TrainTracker received almost 3 million calls in the last year. Almost two out of three were repeat callers and the vast majority of people experienced no problems in getting the information they wanted. The service can plan journeys to and from any of 3,000 locations and recognise 9,000 speech variations, which are different names for the same station.

But we always want to improve our service which is why we regularly test TrainTracker to ensure passengers are able to find out what they need. We have invested millions of pounds in TrainTracker, our call centres and the National Rail Enquiries website, which we relaunched at the end of 2009 and is now the most visited travel and transport website in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), with well over 15 million visits every month.

Punctuality
Austria, Belgium and Spain are among the many other countries that use similar measures to record rail punctuality, and not all include cancelled trains which we do. Significant improvements have been made over the last few years and figures from the independent watchdog, Passenger Focus, show that 82% of people are now satisfied with the punctuality and reliability of trains.

But train companies are not complacent. We are acutely aware of how important punctuality and reliability are to passengers, which is why train companies devote a great deal of energy and resources to ensuring more services arrive on time. Compensation arrangements vary between train companies according to the exact agreement they have with the Government. The terms are made available by individual companies.

[grahame]

We estimate the railways lose up to ^190m a year, money which could pay for the lease of up to 1,500 extra carriages or the upkeep of around 380 stations for around the next five years.

So leasing a carriage for a year is 125,000 pounds, and the upkeep of a station for one year is 100,000 - how on earth do they manage to spend that much on maintaining this?



I agree with the need to cut deliberately fraudulent travel ... but I worry when I read things like "Buying the correct ticket is pretty straightforward";  the people who designed and run the system would love to think that it is, but they're so used to their own system that they overlook how daunting it can be to the newcomer.