Stock cascade of class 150s

[whole diary]

[Rhydgaled]

The term Alphaline doesn't refer to all 158s.  The type of 158s that Arriva Trains Wales have are Alphaline units but the TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) ones were of a different type with a different (supposed to be better) type of engine.

Wiki says there were five varieties of 158:

• 350 hp Cummins 2-car (158701^158814)
• 350 hp Cummins 3-car (158901^158910)
• 350 hp Perkins    2-car (158815^158862)
• 400 hp Cummins 2-car (158863^158872) for steeply graded Welsh Marches Line
• 400 hp Cummins 3-car (re-numbered to class 159 before? entering service)

It seems the Wales & Borders region has mislaid the higher powered units built for it, as wiki also says ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))'s are Perkins units. I wonder what the 400hp 3-car units were meant for originally, before they realised NSE^▸ (Network South East) needed them more.

On Alphaline, wiki says the brand was introduced for express services operated by Regional Railways in the Midlands, Wales and the South West, which is basicly everywhere except Scotrail. Since the units have been swapped around alot, I don't think it really matters.

To me the suituation is like the 140mph HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit). Class 158 'Express Sprinter' and class 373 'Eurostar' are accepted, so why not class 158 'Alphaline' and class 395 'Javelin'. Before I knew class numbers, I knew 158s as Alphalines, simply because Wales & West ran the service at Warminster at the time (and I lived in Warminster then). I still refer to 158s as Alphalines to my family, as they are more likely to understand what I mean than if I used class numbers.

[willc]

On Alphaline, wiki says the brand was introduced for express services operated by Regional Railways in the Midlands, Wales and the South West, which is basicly everywhere except Scotrail. Since the units have been swapped around alot, I don't think it really matters.

To me the suituation is like the 140mph HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit). Class 158 'Express Sprinter' and class 373 'Eurostar' are accepted, so why not class 158 'Alphaline' and class 395 'Javelin'. Before I knew class numbers, I knew 158s as Alphalines, simply because Wales & West ran the service at Warminster at the time (and I lived in Warminster then). I still refer to 158s as Alphalines to my family, as they are more likely to understand what I mean than if I used class numbers.

The Alphaline brand always seemed to be used pretty patchily on services radiating from Birmingham, both under BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) and Central, and was never applied to the large TransPennine fleet and Scotrail's sets, so Alphaline means nothing to people across a large part of the territory once covered by 158s.

[Worcester_Passenger]

Wiki says there were five varieties of 158:

• 350 hp Cummins 2-car (158701^158814)
• 350 hp Cummins 3-car (158901^158910)
• 350 hp Perkins    2-car (158815^158862)
• 400 hp Cummins 2-car (158863^158872) for steeply graded Welsh Marches Line
• 400 hp Cummins 3-car (re-numbered to class 159 before? entering service)

I think that the reference to "Welsh Marches" actually means "Cambrian", from Shrewsbury to Machynlleth.

Steepest bit of the Marches line is northbound out of Abergavenny, 3+ miles to Llanvihangel at 1 in 82 and 1 in 95.

Steepest bit on Cambrian is eastbound out of Machynlleth, last 3+ miles to Talerddig at 1 in 52 and 1 in 56.

[vacman]

Alphaline was just brand applied to Regional Railways express services, those services were meant to be reservable, have air conditioning, at seat catering service and a BT payphone.
FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were the last company to use the brand up until June 2006!

[tramway]

2x2 would decrease seated capacity so I doubt it

A number of factors to take into account if they consider doing it. I assume that First would have to pay for the conversion and would have to be agreed with the leasing company. IF First continue with the franchise they may well consider it worthwhile. Wessex did it with the 150/2's they received a few years ago.

I understood they were meant to replace 142's when they were sent back, so there may be a reason to retain 3+2 on these services. But then again......

[northwesterntrains]

On Alphaline, wiki says the brand was introduced for express services operated by Regional Railways in the Midlands, Wales and the South West, which is basicly everywhere except Scotrail. Since the units have been swapped around alot, I don't think it really matters.

That sounds like the thinking of some government departments - ignore the whole of the north of England!

Transpennine express was originally the name BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) used as branding for express routes that crossed the Pennines in the North of England.  The routes have changed since a bit since then, for instance, Scarborough to Holyhead is now Scarborough to Liverpool, while Sunderland to Liverpool is now Newcastle to Manchester Airport.  transpenninexpress was then the name Northern Spirit and then Arriva Trains Northern used to refer to those routes, before it became a separate franchise with the North West Express routes collectively known as the TransPennine Express franchise.

While only 158s were painted in Transpennine express liveries, Transpennine routes were only exclusively 158s between 2004 and the very first 185 being introduced.  Prior to 2004 various Sprinters could be seen on TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) routes, not just 158s and even occasionally a Pacer, so they couldn't really claim they were Alphaline if only 158s met the Alphaline conditions.

[northwesterntrains]

2x2 would decrease seated capacity so I doubt it

A number of factors to take into account if they consider doing it. I assume that First would have to pay for the conversion and would have to be agreed with the leasing company. IF First continue with the franchise they may well consider it worthwhile. Wessex did it with the 150/2's they received a few years ago.

I understood they were meant to replace 142's when they were sent back, so there may be a reason to retain 3+2 on these services. But then again......

London Midland and Overground 150s plus the 10 Northern got from Arriva Trains Northern will need some changes internally to meet the upcoming disability changes.

I imagine they'll do similar to what First North Western did with their 150s.  Replace the toilet with a larger accessible toilet, install 2+2 seating between the toilet and the nearest external doors and retain the same number of seats in a 3+2 formation in the rest of the train.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

no no no the alphaline branding was used to label newer express trains with enhanced passenger accommodation on certain provincial routes all over the country, it was a brand for the rolling stock and NOT the route 

[Rhydgaled]

On Alphaline, wiki says the brand was introduced for express services operated by Regional Railways in the Midlands, Wales and the South West, which is basicly everywhere except Scotrail. Since the units have been swapped around alot, I don't think it really matters.

That sounds like the thinking of some government departments - ignore the whole of the north of England!

Transpennine express was originally the name BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) used as branding for express routes that crossed the Pennines in the North of England.  The routes have changed since a bit since then, for instance, Scarborough to Holyhead is now Scarborough to Liverpool, while Sunderland to Liverpool is now Newcastle to Manchester Airport.  transpenninexpress was then the name Northern Spirit and then Arriva Trains Northern used to refer to those routes, before it became a separate franchise with the North West Express routes collectively known as the TransPennine Express franchise.

While only 158s were painted in Transpennine express liveries, Transpennine routes were only exclusively 158s between 2004 and the very first 185 being introduced.  Prior to 2004 various Sprinters could be seen on TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) routes, not just 158s and even occasionally a Pacer, so they couldn't really claim they were Alphaline if only 158s met the Alphaline conditions.

When I said it didn't matter, I didn't mean some services weren't important. I meant that it doesn't matter that 158s were used on services that weren't branded as Alphaline, as units from various areas without Alphaline services have ended up in areas that did have Alphaline services. As said above, Wales was meant to have the more powerful ones, now we don't (assuming Wiki is correct on this of course). In other words, I think I'm quite correct to call 158s Alphalines (although passengers in some areas might not know).

no no no the alphaline branding was used to label newer express trains with enhanced passenger accommodation on certain provincial routes all over the country, it was a brand for the rolling stock and NOT the route.

See, somebody agrees with me, Alphaline is a name for the rolling stock.

What about the 159s? Where were they originally inteded for?

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

i can only tell you how network south east  ended up with the class and that is for what ever reason too many were produced and the west of england line desperately needed new rolling stock, to be honest if the west of england line wasn't network south east these units probably would have been branded alphaline also

[willc]

i can only tell you how network south east  ended up with the class and that is for what ever reason too many were produced and the west of england line desperately needed new rolling stock

A bit more complicated than that, see http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class159_1.html

Alphaline is a name for the rolling stock

No it's not. It was a generic brand, like InterCity, intended, as has been indicated earlier in the thread, to convey the type of train and the services available on board. It just so happened this group of services was operated by 158s and some of the trains had stickers or liveries applied on the bodywork that said Alphaline. But lots of Regional Railways services worked by 158s were never branded as Alphaline, even though there was a catering trolley, seat reservations available, etc, etc.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

sorry i should have made it clear it was a name for certain rolling stock offering certain services on express routes to showboat the networks then flagship provincial express units,so i guess that means that it could run a manchester cardiff service as an alphaline service but if it say did exmouth to exeter it wouldnt be an alphaline service as its not an express service,and it wouldnt have trolly, in other words if a service was substituted with a pacer it would nolonger be a alphaline service

[The SprinterMeister]

i can only tell you how network south east  ended up with the class and that is for what ever reason too many were produced and the west of england line desperately needed new rolling stock, to be honest if the west of england line wasn't network south east these units probably would have been branded alphaline also

There was an electrification scheme on a Regional Railways route (think it might have been Birmingham Cross City) that meant that the three car Cummins 400 bhp sets 158873-895 were able to be released. The Tory MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)'s were getting worked up about indifferent locohauled trains on the Waterloo - Exeter line and a general election was fast approaching. They were not prepared to wait for the gangway ended class 165 derivative, notionally class 172. Gordon Pettit who was the main man at Regional Railways had been a BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))-Southern Region general manager in his time. The rest we all know as partially completed 158873-895 were packed off to Rosyth for conversion to 159/0. The coach numbers reflect the original class 158 set numbers.

[anthony215]

Slightly off topic, but rumour doing the round that National express east anglia have done a deal with DRS^▸ (Direct Rail Services Ltd) to provide a loco hauled train on weekdays to cover for the class 156 which was heavily damaged and has yet to be repaired.

 Currently being disccussed on the uk railforums site.

 Havent had full confirmation whether or not this is true ,although could this be using the 47's which are being used on the summer saturday drags to great yarmouth.

what a pity FGW^▸ (First Great Western) did keep at least 1 loco hauled train or ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) use  some of their spare MK2 carriages on the new fishguard service

[bobm]

  a BT payphone.

Gosh I'd forgotten all about those. I remember all the fuss when they were first installed. I wonder who the first person was who shouted "I'm on the train ......."