Stock cascade of class 150s

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

I am really sorry fatcontroller - please don't be offended but I don't understand this comment... please could you explain for a simpleton like me.  Thanks

Yes please do explain in my experience passenger trains stop at the platforms all the time are they breaking the rules? Lets face there would not be much point if they didn't.

[inspector_blakey]

Permissible working refers to a signalling practice that allows two trains into one platform at the same time. One of the most basic tenets of signalling is that the line is divided into "sections", and that each section must never contain more than one train. However, to allow two short trains to use one platform at the same time (as would happen in the case of a service that couples together or divides for example) there are special signalling arrangments in place, which are known as permissive working.

Disclaimer - I'm not a signaller and that is a very basic summary, so apologies for any factual faux pas or missing information!

[grahame]

The problem that exists in Swindon is that the platforms are not permissible for passenger trains; therefore your "new" 1030 Salisbury - Swindon would need to arrive onto a different platform (1 or 3) and then shunt empty into the bay to attach to the 11:54. I don't know whether there is sufficient time or there is a sufficient gap to allow the shunt to take place with other services around.

Ah ... I think I may have heard that somewhere before - thanks for the reminder though.  And that's why we would also have issues with a TransWilts service arriving and leaving again in the bay while a Stroud Valley unit snoozes on the buffers between trips to Cheltenham.  I'm taking it that the issue isn't easily solved, but would rather be a resignalling issue?

Seriously, there are also sorts of considerations on this one at / south of Westbury. I suspect it could replace the mid morning WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) - WMN^» (Warminster - next trains) shuttles ... with something that would be rather busier with passengers ( = more revenue  )

[fatcontroller]

Permissible working refers to a signalling practice that allows two trains into one platform at the same time. One of the most basic tenets of signalling is that the line is divided into "sections", and that each section must never contain more than one train. However, to allow two short trains to use one platform at the same time (as would happen in the case of a service that couples together or divides for example) there are special signalling arrangments in place, which are known as permissive working.

Disclaimer - I'm not a signaller and that is a very basic summary, so apologies for any factual faux pas or missing information!

Sorry for not making myself clear in the first place but Inspector Blakey has hit the nail on the head.
It is exactly the point that a (short) passenger train can not come into a platform with another train already in it.

The practice is different with regards to a train not in service and Swindow would require modified signalling in order to allow permissive working with passenger trains in the same way that the practice is allowed in places such as Bristol TM^‡(resolve).

[phile]

Understand 150121 is now having one of the 209 vehicles inserted at PM to form 3 Car.   I don't know if 209 (the 2 odd 57  vehicles) has been given FGW^▸ (First Great Western) livery yet or not otherwise 121 will look rather odd.    Could be renumbered 150021 (similar to the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) ones which had been formed into 3 Car Sets after splitting 150/2s) but best wait and see on this one unless anybody is in a position to confirm now.   There were stories that the 209 vehicles would be put with a 153 (similar to 150399 after damage to one of 150221 vehicles earlier this year) until refreshed but this would look more odd still, I think.

[phile]

Permissible working refers to a signalling practice that allows two trains into one platform at the same time. One of the most basic tenets of signalling is that the line is divided into "sections", and that each section must never contain more than one train. However, to allow two short trains to use one platform at the same time (as would happen in the case of a service that couples together or divides for example) there are special signalling arrangments in place, which are known as permissive working.

Disclaimer - I'm not a signaller and that is a very basic summary, so apologies for any factual faux pas or missing information!

Maybe off thread of Cascade but refers to issue that has arisen within the thread.   Many members may recall when a Unit collided rather with the rear onother train (Inter-City at the time) at Newton Abbot in the late 90s.    Railtrack were in operation at the time and they commissioned a review at all locations where permissive working applied.  A member of the team told me that they had a target of XXX locations to come up with whether it was considered a safe practice or not.  One such location where  permissive working had to be withdrawn was Cardiff Queen St.   Earlier in the nineties, but still in BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Days, a lot of money and possession time was spent in converting Platform 3 from a Bay into a through road and within the signalling alterations required, provision was made to introduce permissive working.   As this was in BR Days there was no body to try and claim the costs back from Railtrack on this abolition.

[TJ]

I am just trying to tidy up a few queries and would appreciate confirmation of the following:

1) Have both 150001 & 150002 reached FGW^▸ (First Great Western)?
2) Have all the 150/1s now reached FGW?
3) Has 150209 been split and if so to which units have the individual cars been added?
4) Have all the 158 2 car units been converted into 3 car and if so what has happened to 763, 766 and 798?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

TJ

[vacman]

151 121 was still a 2 car on thursday.

[phile]

I am just trying to tidy up a few queries and would appreciate confirmation of the following:

1) Have both 150001 & 150002 reached FGW^▸ (First Great Western)?
2) Have all the 150/1s now reached FGW?
3) Has 150209 been split and if so to which units have the individual cars been added?
4) Have all the 158 2 car units been converted into 3 car and if so what has happened to 763, 766 and 798?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

TJ

Nothing would have happened with 158798 which is a "true" 3 Coach 158 and not a Set which has ben made up by splitting.



Edit note: Quote marks fixed. CfN. 

[asdfg]

1) Have both 150001 & 150002 reached FGW^▸ (First Great Western)?

Yes, I've read that 150001 is at Barton Hill and 150002 is at Reading.

2) Have all the 150/1s now reached FGW?

Yes.

3) Has 150209 been split and if so to which units have the individual cars been added?

I've not read anything to suggest that this has happened.

4) Have all the 158 2 car units been converted into 3 car and if so what has happened to 763, 766 and 798?

158763 and 158766 are still 2-car.
158798 will of course stay 3-car, it was built as such.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

150216 has recently been reformed into a two car set having spent a few years separated to form 3 car sets, not sure whey they would reform it and then split up a different unit?

[vacman]

150216 has recently been reformed into a two car set having spent a few years separated to form 3 car sets, not sure whey they would reform it and then split up a different unit?

is that because one vehicle was damaged in the westbury de-railment though?

[TJ]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my earlier posting, much appreciated. My faux pas on the 158s duly noted!

One further query. Looking at the ABC on line Rail Database it indicates 150248 allocated to Cardiff, although FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are shown as being the user. Has this unit gone temporary walkabout or is ABC wrong?

As far as I can see the DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) fleet operating out of Bristol/Exeter/ now comprises

8 x 143
17 x 150/1
19 x 150/2 (Plus 150209)
14 x 153
2 x 158 two car
1 x 158 three car original
12 x 158 three car 'conversions'
      
I have made a start at looking at seating capacities but this seems a tad of a nightmare with differences being noted between my two reference books, Colin Marsden's 2010 Rail Guide and the 2006 edition of Platform 5's combined publication. Is there an expert on such matters in the house?

TJ

[phile]

Hope you don't think I am bring petty, but just to correct.
Should be 2 x 150/0   (15001 & 150002 3 Cars) and 15 x 150/1

[TJ]

I am always happy to get corrected but I deliberately omitted the 150/0 units as, to my mind anyway, they are not Bristol/Exeter operational units as they are intended for the Reading to Basingstoke service. The 17 x 150/1s I have noted are:

150101
150102
150104
150106
150108
150109
150121
150122
150123
150124
150125
150126
150127
150128
150129
150130
150131

If this is wrong please correct me.

TJ