GWML Electrification - Campaign against bi-mode

[whole diary]

[Timmer]

With regards to Anglia. I can see the new class 379 replacing 90s and Mk3s on the London-Norwich route. From what I have seen of recent pictures they would more than fit the bill on this line. It has already visited Norwich during testing.

[paul7575]

With regards to Anglia. I can see the new class 379 replacing 90s and Mk3s on the London-Norwich route. From what I have seen of recent pictures they would more than fit the bill on this line. It has already visited Norwich during testing.

The 379s are beng used on the Stansted Express, with some for Cambridge.  Trips elsewhere are for probably more for unit testing and mileage accumulation - and maybe route clearance, but aren't necessarily indicative that they'll be used on that route.  The relevant RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) strongly suggests that the 90/Mk3 sets will eventually be replaced by 5 x 23m EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) operating in pairs, similar to the 444s.

Paul

[Timmer]

Again something akin to a 444 would do the job for London-Norwich.

[anthony215]

I think they did look at ordering class 444 style EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s for the London - Norwich route

Isn't the problem that siemens have got rid eof the equipment that was needed to build the class 444 or something?

Also there is a annoucement today that cardiff is to take control  over the operations of welsh railways, so maybe if the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) can find the money they can pay for the wires to be extended to swansea.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2011/03/15/management-of-railway-lines-devolved-to-wales-91466-28338843/

However that should mean that the London - south wales trains can be all emu's however some bi-mode sets would most likely be needed to work the London Paddington - Cardmarthen service's  which could possibly be extended to fishguard harbour to connect with the ferries to ireland.

[eightf48544]

However that should mean that the London - south wales trains can be all emu's however some bi-mode sets would most likely be needed to work the London Paddington - Cardmarthen service's  which could possibly be extended to fishguard harbour to connect with the ferries to ireland.

If the wires get to Swansea it makes even less sense to cart a couple of diesel engines from Pad to Swansea under the wires.

Swansea is easier to do an engine swap than Cardiff. So another reason for loco haulage of through trains.

You could even have say 10 with catering to Swansea and 5 Westward you'd need one  first composite. With corridor say 3 first compartments x 6 so people aren't disturbed by people going to the buffet.  Standard would be open.

[ChrisB]

You're trying to comlicate things, which always costs money. THe DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) will be looking to keep things simple & 'standard' in layout.

[Rhydgaled]

However that should mean that the London - south wales trains can be all emu's however some bi-mode sets would most likely be needed to work the London Paddington - Cardmarthen service's  which could possibly be extended to fishguard harbour to connect with the ferries to ireland.

If the wires get to Swansea it makes even less sense to cart a couple of diesel engines from Pad to Swansea under the wires.

Swansea is easier to do an engine swap than Cardiff. So another reason for loco haulage of through trains.

Exactly what I've been saying, wire to Swansea and use IC225s with a loco-swap at Swansea. No need to worry about 26m coaches fitting the loading guage west of Swansea. Just need to find the cash to wire to Swansea, and some pepole object to my idea of scrapping the heads of the valleys dualing scheme to pay for it. There's a clear choice, road scheme with pontentially large enviromental dis-benifts or rail electrification to avoid enviromentally damaging bi-mode trains (which also allows you the reap the full benifits of the Cardiff - Paddington electrification). Both schemes would have short-term benifits to those who would use them, but I doubt we can afford both schemes, and the rail project is more enviromentally friendly. 

[paul7575]

I think they did look at ordering class 444 style EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s for the London - Norwich route
Isn't the problem that siemens have got rid eof the equipment that was needed to build the class 444 or something?

It is a recommendation in the Anglia RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) for the Mk3 replacement, that's all - so it hasn't been 'looked at' - it is something for the future.

Posters in various rail forums reckon for some reason Siemens are incapable of manufacturing 444s because (allegedly) the fabrication jigs were not kept.  I suggest this is rubbish - and that if enough units were ordered Siemens would just replace the jigs from the drawings.  It really is basic stuff.

Paul

[Electric train]

The IC225 are designed to run as sets they were never designed to change loco's just look at the class 91's only one aerodynamic end and don't even suggest re-cabbing them.  This discussion will perpetually go round in circles the Secretary of State has stated his choice

[eightf48544]

And it's only cost ^27 million according to Modern Railways to make a decision no other railway in teh world seems to be making.

I agree ther are bimode railcars operating out of Paris but they aren't 200 miles plus under the wires before they go diesel.

Re Class 91s the reason they have a rear cab was precisely so they could haul freight. However, their utilisation was such that there wasn't enough spare  time available between stabling at night and start up in the morning to get a worthwhile freight haul in between.

We did use to use our Cromptons on the Central for both freight and passenger.

They would run a up morning peak Brighton London Bridge via Uckfield and then take the stock to New Cross Gate run light to Norwood do a cross London freight then back to Norwood light to Gate heat and pick up ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) do an evening  peak Brighton run ,then possibly a van train back to London to do the newspapers in the middle of the night. Ready to do the cycle the next day.

[Rhydgaled]

The IC225 are designed to run as sets they were never designed to change loco's just look at the class 91's only one aerodynamic end and don't even suggest re-cabbing them.  This discussion will perpetually go round in circles the Secretary of State has stated his choice

Why would I suggest re-cabbing them? They have a cab at both ends, so there's not the problem you might have trying to back a class 43 (IC125 power car) onto stock. I expect having only one aerodynamic end actually makes the train as a whole slightly more aerodynamic than a class 90 and mrk3s with a DVT^‡(resolve) on the other end. As long as you don't turn any 91s around while their coaches are off in the west, the aerodynamic end will still be pointing towards London when the stock gets back, so I see no reason why having different cabs would be a problem. Changing couplers might be needed, but the ones they have are automatic anyway (and I think they swap locos between services at Kings Cross sometimes when they want a look at one in the depot) so I'd imagine they are not particularly slow to undo.

[Btline]

Ok I know only 1tph Intercity, but surely it's silly to end the wires at Cardiff as you'll not have a uniform fleet. Plus the bi-mod will presumably take longer than the al electric.

[JayMac]

Money.

[TerminalJunkie]

Money.

Us and Them.

[JayMac]

Money.

Us and Them.

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