^Appalling^ rail service slammed

[whole diary]

[laird]

I guess the question I'm faced with is what would be the optimum solution, across the West almost every station calls in some way for more and better services.
There are proposals to reopen lines long lost to passenger services for example the Portishead and Filton North lines.
New stations across the Western network at least for Thames Valley Park (Reading East), Copenacre, Stonehouse Midland, Charfield, Gloucester South and Wooton Bassett could all go on the list.
Earlier services from Bristol to Gloucester calling at the intermediate stations perhaps too.
Increasingly regular services, we know passengers like the idea of clockface timetables as it brings security in knowing if I turn up at xx05 there will be a train to my destination.
Perhaps part of the problem for the Melksham line is that it sits in an important freight corridor too so maybe we need more capacity to carry freight too?
Add to that the existing passenger numbers which mean services are permanently overcrowded.

So where should the priorities sit? I'd love to see more stations, longer more frequent trains running earlier and later into the day.
Maybe a new build fleet of four coach trains would be the answer and a similar fleet of five coach units for the Thames Valley and then use these to give the capacity to allow the new stations to join the network? While that would perhaps sort out the worst of the regional problems it would leave the West of England unresolved but hopefully it would release sufficient two car units to meet the needs of the branch line traveller.
The reason I pick four cars is that it is a typical maximum at many of the West^s small stations but would allow eight coach trains to be operated easily between key cities in peak hours. I feel certain that if spare seats are available they will be filled, either by reducing the price per ticket or attracting new passengers away from the overcrowded roads.
The question then becomes what to do about paying for all the improvements we would like to see?

[devon_metro]

 Next Paignton not for an hour so thank God for the number 12 bus.

 

Probably not a great deal quicker than waiting for the train!

[broadgage]

Part of the problem in recent years has been the rush to scrap old rolling stock as soon as new shorter trains are delivered.
New trains are needed in many cases to supplement existing stock, but tend to be replacements not additions.
The proposed Inter City Express (or whatever it is called at present) is being touted as a REPLACEMENT for HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train). No question of keeping the HSTs as well in order to improve capacity.
I dont think that the average rail user will be very impressed if a 30 year old HST is replaced by a new EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), especialy as this new train will probably be shorter and less comfortable.

A more logical approach would surely be to electrify say to Cardiff, and retain ALL the HSTs for use elswhere. How many overcrowded DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) services could be better run by an HST ? how many other overcrowded DMU services could be lengthened by the DMU vehicles thus freed ?
Not likely to happen though is it ? As soon as say 12 new trains have been delivered, they would probably scrap 14 HSTs in the hope of greater availability from the new EMUs.
End result after spending billions would be frequent cancellations on the newly electrified route due to "shortage of rolling stock"
Meanwhile the non electrified routes would be even worse than today, due to scrapping of diesel stock.

[inspector_blakey]

There's an interesting and well-argued opinion piece by Christian Wolmar in the current edition of RAIL (#662) which, by coincidence, touches on many of the issues raised above. In particular examines in some depth the fallacy perpetuated by Ms Villiers et al that train operators have commercial freedom to buy whatever rolling stock and operate whatever services they like above the franchise specification.

It's not available yet on his website but should be within a few days, so I'll try and remember to post a link to it when it appears.

[inspector_blakey]

I dont think that the average rail user will be very impressed if a 30 year old HST^▸ (High Speed Train) is replaced by a new EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), especialy as this new train will probably be shorter and less comfortable.

You may be wide of the mark there; it is said that one of the reasons Cross Country and West Coast services are now bursting at the seams was the popularity of the new trains with the general, non-railway-enthusiast public. Frankly the way many rivet-counting bashers whine on about anything that has been built since the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) mark I you'd think they'd rather have us still with a steam-hauled railway bumbling along at 60mph.

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

I dont think that the average rail user will be very impressed if a 30 year old HST^▸ (High Speed Train) is replaced by a new EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), especialy as this new train will probably be shorter and less comfortable.

You may be wide of the mark there; it is said that one of the reasons Cross Country and West Coast services are now bursting at the seams was the popularity of the new trains with the general, non-railway-enthusiast public. Frankly the way many rivet-counting bashers whine on about anything that has been built since the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) mark I you'd think they'd rather have us still with a steam-hauled railway bumbling along at 60mph.

I would be more inclined to put the increase in use, due to the increased speed and frequency on the West Coast, largely between Manchester / Glasgow / Birmingham and London than anything else. Certainly the effect of 3 trains an hour between Euston and Manchester has had a massive effect on domestic flights between London and the North West, than passengers preferring the new stock itself.

I would imagine that the average non railway enthusiast passenger doesn't really care less either way what they are being hauled by, and in fact some passengers considered the refurbished Great Western HST's to be 'new trains'. From talking to people I know, who travel on trains but have zero interest in them, they aren't impressed with voyagers as a replacement for '125s' - (which is any slam door BR intercity train in their book) - general complaints being lack of tables, hard straighter backed seats and frequent overcrowding.

[JaminBob]

On 'emotive', there's nothing wrong with having an opinion and being passionate about it. Not much would ever happen if people didn't and weren't. 

The point is that a lot of this is still just excuses. It's symptomatic of a rail industry which sees spiralling costs and Byzantine complexity. I'm sure we all see things in our daily real lives where things 'absolutely, positivity, definitely, cannot be done'... but where there is a will there is a way. If it is made a priority and people want it to happen, say customers or senior people, it gets done.

If this was a priority for FGW^▸ (First Great Western), MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)'s, local councils, whoever, it could be sorted or at least helped. The crazy loco with the intercity carriages is proof of that.

But it's not a priority. And why should it be when we carry on paying ever increasing fares like mugs and put up with it.     

[inspector_blakey]

There's an interesting and well-argued opinion piece by Christian Wolmar in the current edition of RAIL (#662) which, by coincidence, touches on many of the issues raised above. In particular examines in some depth the fallacy perpetuated by Ms Villiers et al that train operators have commercial freedom to buy whatever rolling stock and operate whatever services they like above the franchise specification.

It's not available yet on his website but should be within a few days, so I'll try and remember to post a link to it when it appears.

Apologies for quoting myself, but the article referred to above is now available on Wolmar's website:
http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/2011/02/rail-662-no-room-for-entrepreneurs-on-the-railway/

Well worth a read - it deals with several issues pertinent to the debate above and shows the system that train operators are up against which makes it exceedingly difficult for them to "just buy new trains" or run more services, despite the pronouncements of the government to the contrary.

[broadgage]

[quote author=Doctor Gideon Ceefax link=topic=8364.msg84734#msg84734 I would imagine that the average non railway enthusiast passenger doesn't really care less either way what they are being hauled by, and in fact some passengers considered the refurbished Great Western HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s to be 'new trains'. From talking to people I know, who travel on trains but have zero interest in them, they aren't impressed with voyagers as a replacement for '125s' - (which is any slam door BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) intercity train in their book) - general complaints being lack of tables, hard straighter backed seats and frequent overcrowding.
[/quote]

I would agree that many non-technical customers thought that the refurbished HSTs were new trains.
That however is by no means a compliment ! new trains are well known for high density bus seats, high backed seats, lack of tables, reduced catering and absence of luggage space.
Since the refurb consisted of removing most tables, adding extra seats, etc it is not suprising that some thought these were new trains.

[laird]

Pathing for trains have been a problem for a long time, I'm sure we can understand the point raised by FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) in the Wolmar article, if they allow the extra service in then they risk loosing customers in addition to having to pay out on delay repay claims.
So does that mean that any new services have to operate over under utilised routes?

Working on three minute headways the absolute maximum any line can take is 20 trains per hour, the problem is of course that in practice station stops along the route probably nead nearer 5 minute headway, down to 12 trains per hour. The Brighton line is not four track throughout if my memory serves correctly, in addition to the 5 trains per hour FCC+Southern from Brighton there will be other Southern services joining the route from Lewes and Hove. Perhaps 4 trains between the 2 so at 9 trains per hour the route is getting very close to capacity as there needs to be some time left for delays, maintenance/freight movements and waiting to cross over to a terminus platform.

[broadgage]

Frankly the way many rivet-counting bashers whine on about anything that has been built since the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) mark I you'd think they'd rather have us still with a steam-hauled railway bumbling along at 60mph.

Choice one- Sitting in a full sized seat, at a table with a window, luggage space, ample leg room, working toilets and a restaurant. Hauled by a steam or other locomotive at a start to stop average of 60MPH.
BR mark 2 or 3 or similar.

Choice two- sitting on a high backed, high density bus seat with knees up near ears. No catering. Toilets out of order. Underfloor bus engine roaring, rattling and farting throughout.
Start to stop average speed 85MPH.
Voyager, Meridian or similar.


I know which I would prefer ! And that is without taking into account that on the new shorter train that I might not get a seat at all.