Is it time to campaign for an Open Access Operator in The GW area

[whole diary]

[smokey]

Whilst the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) like one Main operator at London Stations the WHOLE PRIVATISATION of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) was about bringing competition on to the Railway.

Claims were made that the East Coast line from Doncaster to London KX was full with no spare train paths, yet paths WERE found for Extra services from Leeds to KX and also Grand Central's Sunderland KX services.

What is needed in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area is an Open Access operator to Run from Newquay Cornwall to London.
If Newquay warrents a Airport it sure as Hell deserves daily though Trains to London.
Whilst Reading to Paddington is fairly full, 4 lines bring about massive increases in Paths than standard twin lines. Ever notice how trains between Reading and London, especially Limited Stop Turbo Services, switch from Fast Lines to Slow lines and back again, Can't overtake when there's only 1 up and 1 down line.

The Biggest area of concern for Train paths between Newquay and London is between Exeter St David's and Newton Abbot, this line is full at some times during the day.
More reason to rebuild the Tavistock line and press on back to Okehampton. OH BLISS

And if Paddington is Full, there are different routes, How about Newquay-Exeter St D-Westbury (Reverse)-Salisbury-London Waterloo, Victoria or even Kensington Olympia.

There's plenty of MK^▸ (Milton Keynes) III coaches, Driving Van Trailers (So no need to run engine round) off hire.

Of course FGW WOULD THROW THERE TOY'S OUT THE PRAM ON THIS ONE

BUT WE NEED SOMEONE TO SHOW FGW HOW TO RUN TRAINS

And competition would bring some Reasonable fares.

Smokey

[simonw]

I'm not sure that an Open Access Operator would be able to run trains into Paddington via the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line). This would probably be a step too far for the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

Possible routes could be

Cardiff to Brighton via BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains), Swindon and Reading
Bristol to Oxford via Bath, Chippenham and Swindon
Cornwall to London, via Newuay/Truro to London Waterloo
Gloucester to Southampton/Portsmouth

Any potential Open Operator would have to demonstrate neglect by the current arrangements, and demand for a change. This is how Wrexham, Hull and Sunderland have been able to get Open Operators. Also, Open Operators must be self funding, and have strong local support (MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context)'s and Councils)

[Shazz]

What is needed in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area is an Open Access operator to Run from Newquay Cornwall to London.
If Newquay warrents a Airport it sure as Hell deserves daily though Trains to London.

Not really, theres something like well over 10 flights a day to london, which take the passengers off the trains as its a lot cheaper, and quicker to fly than get a train.

Heavy investment in the newquay branch to bring it up to "standard" (ie a complete track relay) would go a long way to making it a viable alternative

[devon_metro]

I'm not sure many people actually want to come all the way from London to Newquay in the middle of winter?

FGWs^▸ (First Great Western) summer service is excellent and is often full and standing from Reading.

[Btline]

What is needed in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area is an Open Access operator to Run from Newquay Cornwall to London.
If Newquay warrents a Airport it sure as Hell deserves daily though Trains to London.

Not really, theres something like well over 10 flights a day to london, which take the passengers off the trains as its a lot cheaper, and quicker to fly than get a train.

Heavy investment in the newquay branch to bring it up to "standard" (ie a complete track relay) would go a long way to making it a viable alternative

I don't think that it would be quicker to fly. How slow is the Newquay branch. Are there plenty of loops?

I think Reading sta, and the Padd to Read line are full!

Cardiff/Bristiol to Oxford would be good, esp with an extra platform at Oxford.

I think that going via Parkway would be better (more cusotomers- people like P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) stas).

[Shazz]

What is needed in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area is an Open Access operator to Run from Newquay Cornwall to London.
If Newquay warrents a Airport it sure as Hell deserves daily though Trains to London.

Not really, theres something like well over 10 flights a day to london, which take the passengers off the trains as its a lot cheaper, and quicker to fly than get a train.

Heavy investment in the newquay branch to bring it up to "standard" (ie a complete track relay) would go a long way to making it a viable alternative

I don't think that it would be quicker to fly. How slow is the Newquay branch. Are there plenty of loops?

I think Reading sta, and the Padd to Read line are full!

Cardiff/Bristiol to Oxford would be good, esp with an extra platform at Oxford.

I think that going via Parkway would be better (more cusotomers- people like P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) stas).

Flight:
^56
Takes 3 hour 10 (if you include an hour each end for checkin, and an hour the other to get to work)

Train:
^73
Takes over 5 hours (there is no direct london to newquay service) An hour of this is just traversing the 20 miles of the newquay branch

Flying is the only real way to commute to london apart from driving for the people of newquay. Hence why the number of services out of newquay airport have grown dramatically since they were re-started a few years ago

[Btline]

What is needed in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area is an Open Access operator to Run from Newquay Cornwall to London.
If Newquay warrents a Airport it sure as Hell deserves daily though Trains to London.

Not really, theres something like well over 10 flights a day to london, which take the passengers off the trains as its a lot cheaper, and quicker to fly than get a train.

Heavy investment in the newquay branch to bring it up to "standard" (ie a complete track relay) would go a long way to making it a viable alternative

I don't think that it would be quicker to fly. How slow is the Newquay branch. Are there plenty of loops?

I think Reading sta, and the Padd to Read line are full!

Cardiff/Bristiol to Oxford would be good, esp with an extra platform at Oxford.

I think that going via Parkway would be better (more cusotomers- people like P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) stas).

Flight:
^56
Takes 3 hour 10 (if you include an hour each end for checkin, and an hour the other to get to work)

Train:
^73
Takes over 5 hours (there is no direct london to newquay service) An hour of this is just traversing the 20 miles of the newquay branch

Flying is the only real way to commute to london apart from driving for the people of newquay. Hence why the number of services out of newquay airport have grown dramatically since they were re-started a few years ago

Well, the way forward should be to cut the journey on the branch!

[Shazz]

it still wouldnt be a viable alternative then either...

[Graz]

Don't forget many people hate flying. Including me

As for the open access operator, small branch lines certainly may be an option  (Like for example, using a PPM^▸ (Parry People Mover, or Pence Per Mile, or Public Performance Measure - depending on context) service on the Newquay route) and the Bristol (or Cardiff) to Oxford route may certainly be a good idea.

[Shazz]

I don't know which thread it was on, but there are "issues" with having PPM^▸ (Parry People Mover, or Pence Per Mile, or Public Performance Measure - depending on context)'s on track at the same time as regular trains, plus i'd think a ppm would be worse than a 142 when its busy, as the majority of "seating" is standing!

[devon_metro]

Newquay gets absoultly wedged in summer, so i'd hate to see a PPM^▸ (Parry People Mover, or Pence Per Mile, or Public Performance Measure - depending on context)!!!!

I don't really think any OA Tocs are going to run services on a *loss* making branch line?!

[grahame]

I don't really think any OA Tocs are going to run services on a *loss* making branch line?!

No, but there are possibilities if they are funded by some means other than a franchise arangement; as I understand it, the folks planning the service from Wrexham to London are open access, but receiving financial assistance from various non-DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) places.  Another thing about an OA operator is that they can cherry pick rather than have to run specified services under a franchise, and they have no franchise payments to make on profit. And they may be able to run services over a section that is not especially profitable if it feeds them other profitable business to adjoining services.

"It probably won't happen", but let's say that Stagecoach ran a single unit based at their Salisbury depot, via an Open Access arrangement, to Chippenham and Swindon and back every 3 hours.  Probably not worth the hassle, short term, it it was limited to that.  Now - let's say that instead of an isolated unit, they extend their Waterloo - Salisbury stopper up to Swindon and offer an excellent fare than undercuts First to a London destination which is a long way across from Paddington and is going to save many people who want to go to the Charing Cross / South Bank / City a lot of time.

Oh - and they'll also pick up a lot more Trwobridge and Warminster to London passengers with their greatly enhanced services from there - up from 3 through services a day to 7 or 8.

[vacman]

You can't really compare Newquay to London air vs train, you'll find that people who fly from Newquay travel from all around Cornwall as Newquay is the "hub" for air travel, you should compare it as Cornwall to London and no matter how many flights run from Newquay it isn't a drop in the ocean compared to how many people catch the train from Cornwall to London, bear in mind most Penzance-Paddington services call at 11 stations before Plymouth, where as there is only one air port! Also, it is generally cheaper to catch the train if you get a leisure advance and despite all the press reports that people can never get these tickets they ARE there, I see plenty of leisure tickets on the trains that I work! Fair enough it is quicker to fly from Newquay to London BUT If you are going from say Truro to London then firstly you have to get to Newquay airport which is in the middle of nowhere, then you have to arrive early, check in, and look what happens when the weather turns, Ryanair simply say "it's not our fault, make your own way home"! At least if a train fails then FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will get you there in the end at their expense!

I remember working the sleeper up one night, we get to Bodmin Parkway and quite a few people got on, went through the train and sold quite a few tickets to Stanstead Airport to lots of pi**ed of looking people, got chatting to one of them in the end and they had all been booked on a flight from Newquay with Ryanair, as it was foggy the flight was cancelled and there were no more flights, they were told that it wasn't the airlines fault and they had to get their own way back! Ryanair wouldn't even give the passengers a taxi to the nearest train station!

[smokey]

I'm not sure that an Open Access Operator would be able to run trains into Paddington via the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line). This would probably be a step too far for the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

Possible routes could be

Cardiff to Brighton via BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains), Swindon and Reading
Bristol to Oxford via Bath, Chippenham and Swindon
Cornwall to London, via Newuay/Truro to London Waterloo
Gloucester to Southampton/Portsmouth

Any potential Open Operator would have to demonstrate neglect by the current arrangements, and demand for a change. This is how Wrexham, Hull and Sunderland have been able to get Open Operators. Also, Open Operators must be self funding, and have strong local support (MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context)'s and Councils)

Why Can't a Open Operator run into Paddington, it wasn't a Step to Far for the DfT for Hull Trains and Grand Central to Start (OK GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) is only just about to come on Line)
GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) throw their TOYS out the Pram but were OVER RULED in the courts.
A Newquay-Par-Bodmin Parkway-Liskeard-Plymouth and NON STOP to Paddington Service would Pay Off.
Most People who fly would take the train when Possible, they do have Concerns about the Enviroment, and whilst there are Cheap Air Fares, there are Cheap Rail Fares, and Full Price Air Fares aren't cheap.
I've been on the UP Sleeper and the Train was Swamped at Bodmin Parkway because Ryan Air had Cancelled a Flight.

Why when the Train Company's Cancel a Train do they HAVE to lay on Buses And TAXIS if no other service is available, it Cost BIG BUCKS, ok it's safeguarded into the price of tickets.
But When an Airline Cancel a Flight it's a case of Tough luck, here's your Money back, Now **** OFF
How much would Air Fares Rise if it was a Level Playing Field?
Oh the Air Lines would squeal like pigs if it was even suggested!

[Shazz]

A Newquay-Par-Bodmin Parkway-Liskeard-Plymouth and NON STOP to Paddington Service would Pay Off.
Most People who fly would take the train when Possible, they do have Concerns about the Enviroment, and whilst there are Cheap Air Fares, there are Cheap Rail Fares, and Full Price Air Fares aren't cheap.

Why when the Train Company's Cancel a Train do they HAVE to lay on Buses And TAXIS if no other service is available, it Cost BIG BUCKS, ok it's safeguarded into the price of tickets.
But When an Airline Cancel a Flight it's a case of Tough luck, here's your Money back, Now **** OFF
How much would Air Fares Rise if it was a Level Playing Field?
Oh the Air Lines would squeal like pigs if it was even suggested!

This is going to happen once the 2nd platform opens at newquay anyway, so its pointless in an open access for newquay

Airlines have to get you to your destination no matter what. If you make your own travel arrangements as a result of there mess up, they will (and have to) refund you.

A flight from my place in spain to cardiff a few years ago got canceled, so i got another flight back via a different airline. As waiting an extra day would have badly messed up my other plans. Sure there customer service was crap and i had to pay ^30 for a small claims court to get my money, but i got a full refund for the extra flight, the canceled flight, and relevant compensation.