Apology after woman forced off train in ticket error. (Western Gazette 06/01/11)

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

From the Western Gazette:

A rail passenger has received an apology after being ejected from a train by a ticket inspector who wrongly refused to accept an off-peak fare.

Kerry-Anne Mendosa, 29, described the humiliation of being kicked off the train as her "worst-ever customer service experience".

She was told to leave for refusing to pay a ^16 standard day return fare for a off-peak return journey between Bedminster and Bridgwater, which should have cost ^8.20.

Ms Mendosa, travelling to work as a project manager in Bridgwater, initially refused to get off the train when it stopped at Worle station and only left after being pressured by fellow passengers who were held up for 25 minutes as police were called in to remove her.

Rail operator First Great Western (FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) has now admitted the train inspector made a mistake and an internal investigation has been launched.

Ms Mendosa, who makes the 50-minute journey to Bridgwater at 8.30am three times a week and always pays for a cheap off-peak fare, says a FGW inspector made a similar mistake two months ago by asking her for a higher fare.

She said: "I have to say, it's the worst customer service of my life and probably the worst I have ever heard of."

John Ratchford, spokesman for FGW, said: "We're sorry for any inconvenience."

[inspector_blakey]

Hmm, a somewhat mealy-mouthed response on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s behalf by Mr Ratchford methinks. One thing that really gets on my t*ts is when people apologize for "any" inconvenience, as if there's a chance that being booted off a train by a prat who didn't know the rules could possibly not be inconvenient, not to mention distressing or downright infuriating... Apologizing for "the" inconvenience that was self-evidently caused might be a start, but if the facts of the case are indeed as reported in the article then surely an FGW spokesman could do better than this!

[JayMac]

One fact in the story is slightly wrong. The Anytime Day Return is ^14.40, not ^16.00.

The 'ticket inspector' (was it an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) or the conductor?) appears to have grossly over-reacted by calling the police, unless of course she did or said something else that would warrant police attendance. How difficult is it to call up restriction details on Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains)?

There are three different times for Off Peak Day validity on this route to Bridgwater. From Bristol TM^‡(resolve), Bedminster and Parson Street it is 0800. From Yatton, Nailsea & Backwell and Highbridge it is 0930. From Worle, Weston Milton and Weston-super-Mare it is 0920.

Given that there are so many differences it should be behoven of the 'ticket inspector' to double check what the customer is telling him/her. I can only assume that the 'ticket inspector' decided that Bedminster had the same restriction as Nailsea and Yatton without bothering to double check.

Whilst (as always) we only having one side of the story here, it appears from Ms Mendosa's comments that this wasn't an isolated incident as she had nearly been overcharged before. One wonders how many passengers in the past have paid up without question?

I, too, have had recent experience of being quoted incorrect fares on board. A conductor not believing an Off Peak Day could possibly be valid at 0635. However, in this instance, at my request, the conductor checked her Avantix and all was fine. Conductor doing a ticket check on my next train also had to consult his Avantix because he also thought An Off Peak Day couldn't possibly be valid at 0723 off Bristol. At least he warned his colleague who took over duties at Westbury. This new conductor then commented to me that he too was unaware that you can travel to Waterloo via Salisbury as early as that on an Off Peak Day.

This lack of knowledge is worrying, especially if staff are not going to do a simple check and will instead resort to throwing pax off the train. I appreciate that retailing is down the list of priorities for a conductor or TM and that the ticketing system is complex, but when you have the ability to check validity so easily on Avantix there really is no excuse for escalating a situation as appears to have happened in Ms Mendosa's case.

[MediaJohn]

Fair point about 'the' versus 'any', and I agree the statement as quoted is a bit abrupt, especially given the nature of the story.

The actual quote I gave to the journo was longer:

"Ms. Mendosa was eligible for an off-peak ticket, so this was a complete mistake. We're sorry for any inconvenience caused and have given Ms. Mendosa fare vouchers for future travel as a goodwill gesture. We have also begun an internal investigation to ensure this doesn't happen again."

The Bristol Evening Post version uses the full quote: http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Train-firm-sorry-ticket-mix/article-3070754-detail/article.html

[JayMac]

Thank you for that response, MediaJohn, and for letting us know exactly what action FGW^▸ (First Great Western) took in response to this rather worrying incident. It is most unusual to have a response from the other side of the story, as it were, here on the forum. Surprising and very welcome.

On behalf of the moderator and admin team, may I extend a warm welcome to Coffee Shop forum. 

[Tim]

I think that in instances like this there shoudl actually be punative action taken against the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).  There needs to be a regulator to fine FGW^▸ (First Great Western) thousands of pounds (taken out of a bond deposited at the start of the franchise)  when this kind of thing happens.  The TOCs will not improve unless they are hit where it hurts.     

[Exeter]

Tim, for gods sake take a reality check!! The guy on the train made a mistake, perhaps he was new staff??  Who knows but it's hardly surprising considering the complexity of ticket restrictions which seems to provide endless opportunities for discussion on this forum!! I would be very surprised if you can find one conductor/train manager who works for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (or indeed any other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)) who is completely 100% aware of all ticket restrictions for the area for which they work. The system is just far too complex for any individual to have that sort of knowledge - unless they're fanatical! Personally if i was in this woman's situation I would have paid the fare and then taken it up with the company concerned - I wouldn't have gone running to the local newspaper! Still, if you want to fine the company thousands then ok, that's your perogative - but they'll get it back at the next fares increase!   

[vacman]

All the relevant restrictions are in the Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) machines but the company fails quite badly in monitoring how staff go about doing tickets, for example, in the guards team briefs there is very little mostly nothing regarding tickets, we are given a weekly retail circular which is usually full of stuff that isn't relevant to FGW^▸ (First Great Western), I personally think that all staff who sell/check tickets should be tested regularly on certain things, I'm pretty sure that RPO's and RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))'s get refreshers on Penalty fares at regular intervals.

It makes me laugh how one person kept issuing Y-P discounts for small fares before 1000 and all the other staff in the area got grief for not doing so, everyone kept telling the local manager but nothing was done.

Too many guards use the excuse that tickets aren't their first priority etc.... well yes, agreed, not the first part of the job but it is PART of the job!

If management are reading this then do something about it!

[JayMac]

Exeter, the guy on the train made a mistake. Agreed. But he had a simple solution - check his Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains). Involving the Police was way beyond necessary, as was subjecting Ms Mendosa to the wrath of other passengers.

Personally if I was in this woman's situation I would have paid the fare and then taken it up with the company concerned. 

Incurring further cost and time to the passenger. Great solution. Not. This is overcharging and it is unexceptable. Whilst it may be a one off, I fear that if this 'ticket inspector' believed he was right (he did call the Police, remember) then this won't have been the first time he's overcharged somebody on this route. Ms Mendosa pointed out to the press that she had nearly been overcharged on a previous occasion. Passengers should have confidence that they are going to be sold the right ticket at the right price. Ones that know already what they should pay, as Ms Mendosa did, should not be subject to such a humiliating experience.

Still, if you want to fine the company thousands then ok, that's your perogative - but they'll get it back at the next fares increase!   

A silly argument. By that rationale, we should not fine TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) for delays, safety breaches etc.

So, sorry Exeter, I'm in agreement with Tim on this one, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) deserve some punitive action. Hopefully the bad publicity will be enough....

EDIT: I have referred to the 'ticket inspector' in this thread as 'he'. Please read that as 'he/she'. There's no mention in the quoted news items whether the 'ticket inspector' was male or female.

[inspector_blakey]

Fair point about 'the' versus 'any', and I agree the statement as quoted is a bit abrupt, especially given the nature of the story.

The actual quote I gave to the journo was longer:

"Ms. Mendosa was eligible for an off-peak ticket, so this was a complete mistake. We're sorry for any inconvenience caused and have given Ms. Mendosa fare vouchers for future travel as a goodwill gesture. We have also begun an internal investigation to ensure this doesn't happen again."

The Bristol Evening Post version uses the full quote: http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Train-firm-sorry-ticket-mix/article-3070754-detail/article.html

MediaJohn, welcome to the forum and thanks for the clarification! I did wonder if the hack involved had clipped the quote from FGW^▸ (First Great Western), since it really did seem rather threadbare for the situation as reported; wonder if they were genuinely struggling for space or they were just selective to help with their preferred narrative of FGW as the villain in the piece...

The guy on the train made a mistake, perhaps he was new staff??  Who knows but it's hardly surprising considering the complexity of ticket restrictions which seems to provide endless opportunities for discussion on this forum!! I would be very surprised if you can find one conductor/train manager who works for FGW (or indeed any other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)) who is completely 100% aware of all ticket restrictions for the area for which they work. The system is just far too complex for any individual to have that sort of knowledge - unless they're fanatical!

Quite possibly true, but a basic tenet of any kind of customer service training is that when in doubt you check your facts before kicking someone off a train they're perfectly entitled to be on. If for some reason you can't get the definitive answer (despite the fact that you're issued with an avantix machine that will tell you what it is in fairly short order) then you err on the side of the customer. You certainly do not call the police on them and use the train's PA^▸ (Public Address) system to humiliate them in front of all the other passengers. In all honesty I'm amazed that you're trying to defend the actions of the staff member here. If you genuinely think that in Ms Mendosa's shoes you truly would meekly put up with that sort of treatment and take things up with the company later then I admire your stoicism, but there's not many of us (myself included) who would put up with it.

[Tim]

OK, Exeter.

I am not saying that staff are not sometimes allowed to make mistakes (or that the occassional lapse shoudl result in the guard being sacked or anything).  We are all allowed to make a mistake.  What I think is wrong and ought to be changed is the present one-sided nature of it all.  A customer makes a mistake and they get stung for a higher fare, PFed or prosecuted, whereas if the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) makes a mistake they issue an appology and all is forgiven.   I bet they don't even get a preformance penalty because they will put the TM^‡(resolve) caused delay down to "passenger action"

ticket mis-selling is rife throughout the industry.  If a utility company did it as much as the TOCs do they would be absolutely clobbered by their regulator with multimillion pound fines.

As for any fine due to the TOC coming out of fare increases, that is a concern and why I suggested that they deposit a "good behaviour" bond at the start of the franchise.  I am not sure that would work, but we all know that companies respond to financial incentives, so it seems prefectly reasonable to incentivise them to keep to the rules.  Might also be an incentive for them to simplify the rules too.

[smithy]

i am aware of exactly what happened and who was involved and lets just say the press as per usual do not give full story there is more to it than has been reported.


edited as i did not realise i had broken forum rules apologies for that.

[grahame]

Change much appreciated, thanks ... there are times that the all the various things we have to follow in running a forum seem almost as complicated as the ticketing system ... some are obvious, but others are not ...

[broadgage]

These sorts of errors seem to occur regularly, and of course sometimes the passenger is wrong either through their own fault, or from having been wrongly advised by railway staff.

I believe that the present system is far too complicated and beyond the understanding of many employees and customers.

I believe that the fares system should be very substantialy simplified, with only three different fares available (in each class of travel) for any journey.
These should be known as peak, off peak, and bargain and be identified by the colours red, yellow and green on the ticket and in the timetable.
Peak would be similar to the present full fare
Off peak would be about 60% of the peak fare
Bargain would be about 30% of the peak

To contain the greed of TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), peak fares would be restricted to no more than 25% of the timetabled services, and bargain fares would have to be offered on at least 25% of services, the remainder being being off peak.

When two routes are available, such as via London or not via London different fares for the two routes could be charged, but still only 3 fares for each route.

The present system brings the railway into dis-repute, a great many dont travel because it is too complicated. Just look at some of the lengthy threads on these forums regarding fares.

The red, yellow, or green fare should be charged according to the time of travell, not the time of booking or ticket purchase.
At present it costs several times more to turn up and go, then to book in advance, for the same train.
Passengers who miss a connection can be "fined" hundreds of pounds for travelling on another off peak train than the one booked, why ?

Likewise at present, full fare customers often have to stand whilst those with discounted tickets purchased in advance get seats.
Under my proposed system, all tickets on the same train, between the same stations, should be the same price. No question of ANY discounted fares on busy rush hour services, and likewise no need to pay the full peak time fare for off peak travel, event at the last minute.

[Tim]

Not sure I agree with all of your proposal, but some kind of vastly simplified system needs to be put in place. 

There is talk of "too much micromanagement" in the industry which would argue against that kind of simplification,  but to my mind there are too kinds of micromanagement.  There is the kind that gives protection to customers which should still be retained and things like the complicated internal money-go-round that could be scrapped.