Club 50 / Club 55 - merged posts

[whole diary]

[Mookiemoo]

But don't allow offfers in peak time!

[JayMac]

I'm reliably informed that Club 55 will be returning to Arriva Trains Wales from 9th January. Details have been loaded into retail systems, but, as yet, ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former Train Operating Company)) haven't started advertising it on their website.

From a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) staff member, posted on another forum:

^15 for any return journey on the ATW network (you can use other operators, but only on ATW routes), or you can extend it in one of the following ways.....

To start/end on the Merseyrail network = +^1

To use a Northern Rail service to start/end the journey at a Greater Manchester station = +^1

To use London Midland services from Crewe to Runcorn and Liverpool = +^5

To use Cross Country Services between Birmingham and Cheltenham = +^10

To use WSMR^▸ (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway) services to Leamington Spa, Banbury and London Marylebone = +^25

[vacman]

Nobody was taking the p**s what was happening was a demonstartion of just how many passengers the railway can attract if the fares are right.

The fact that the railways can't cope with that level of travel is down to stupid government policies in particular underinvestment in rolling stock.

As an ex railwayman I know passengers are a bl*** nuisance but just think of how much extra money poured into the coffers.

They were taking the preverbial not by using the tickets but by blatently ignoring the very few restrictions imposed! It was a pointless scheme as it wont have attracted any new customers as they will never be back unless there is a similar offer, it may have actually been damaging as the people under 55 who had turned up on a whim and pay for walk up fares were stood in the vestibules!

[super tm]

I thought I would add a few points of my own.

1.  Staff were poorly informed.  I did not receive a brief until about 3 weeks after the promotion had started.  Ticket office were not well briefed as they assumed that the restriction on use was the same as off peak and were selling tickets for travel on the 1606 1615 from pad etc.  This caused problems for on train staff who were trying to enforce the restricitons.

2.  There were some Friday only restriction on west country services coming out of paddington.  Not valid on 1406, 1506 but again these were not shown in the leaflet so caused problems for on train staff.

3. Believe it or not the fares were hidden away in the advantix machine used by on board staff.  when we sell a ticket on board we are usually only given the walk up fares available for that route.  This is sensible as we cannot sell advance fares so there is no need for us to see them.  However  that was where most of the Club 55 fares were hidden !  Not knowing this many staff could not sell the tickets which did not go down too well with the customers.

4. To be honest the price was too cheap on the long distance services to the west country.  As posted here towards the end of the offer as word of mouth got around many services to and from penzance were full and standing in first class.

[jester]

Hear hear! I believe one of the main periods that caused problems was the half term time in October. Full and sanding in both directions from Penzance - Pad. I actually witnessed 'little old ladies' who had'nt bothered to reserve a seat in standard being ushered to first class by the T.M only to then find he was asking someone to give up their seat for her! I think it was ^25 return end to end (less with a railcard) and no seat reservation necessary. This caused all sorts of problems! Too right if you have paid 200 - 300 for first class and then you hav'nt got a seat because of someone like this!

[JayMac]

The cost vs seat argument is a little spurious, whether this offer was available or not. Most ticket types do not guarantee you a seat. At least a 1st class ticket holder is entitled to a refund, if they have to stand for more than 20mins, of the difference between their fare and the equivalent Standard fare, for the part of the journey affected.

If you've paid ^200-^300 for your ticket and haven't made a reservation then you have no more right to a seat than any other passenger, be they Club 55, with a season, using a railcard, on a BritRail pass, an ALR^▸ (All Line Rover), a child and so on.

Of course we could have 'full fare' only in First Class on certain services. But then, where would the off-duty staff sit?

[SDS]

Of course we could have 'full fare' only in First Class on certain services. But then, where would the off-duty staff sit?

We'd still sit in there! After all the TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) can relax the rules as its their train, and anyhow most of us have upgrade boxes, and some lucky people even have First Class perks!

[Henry]

  I do not think you can fault the idea of club 55, from a business point of view.

  Attract 'new customers' to the railway during a 'quiet' time of the year, filling empty seats.

  Actually in my small part of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) land, their are not that many empty seats.

[woody]

Club 55 is in principal a good way to fill otherwise empty seats on lighty loaded off peak services.However in my own neck of the woods, Devon and Cornwall, severe overcrowding occured in Autumn 2010 because Club 55 was available on already busy services like the 0844 and 1000 Penzance/Paddington services.The ^40 First class(^32 with a rail card ) was simply too good value.Club 55 needs to be better targeted next and more realistically priced to actual demand,perhaps a two tier pricing structure to encourage use on quiter services.

[vacman]

  I do not think you can fault the idea of club 55, from a business point of view.

  Attract 'new customers' to the railway during a 'quiet' time of the year, filling empty seats.

  Actually in my small part of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) land, their are not that many empty seats.

That was the whole problem, there were hardly any empty seats before!

[Brucey]

Would the Club 55 offer not be better if run as an Advance type of ticket?  That way, the tickets could be quota controlled to ensure services don't end up too busy.

[JayMac]

The Arriva Trains Wales offer is now on their website:

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/club55/

[grahame]

I had certainly not expected to generate such a strong reaction when I initially asked the question ... which hasn't actually been answered, but which looks like it's a "no" - although it *will* be running in Wales and Scotland.

Super-tm

I thought I would add a few points of my own.

Excellent points, all of these - showing some of the issues with the scheme.   Some of the other criticisms of the scheme - alas - seemed to go rather over the top;  I can point to additional rail use made as a result of the scheme, after the scheme ended, and so at a different price - business which would otherwise have been lost to road transport.   So "won't have attracted any new customers" is downright wrong.  I'm minded of the graph I saw in a recent DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) report (oh help - I should have noted my source exactly) showing rail journeys made by age, and how women seem to move away from train travel at about the age of 45, and men from 55.   And on that basis, Club 55 looks like a tuned targetting of a sector which is well identified.  What a shame if this sector isn't to be encouraged in the South West, be it due to specific problems with the scheme that was tried in the area, or the inability of the services that can be provided to cope with the business.

[JayMac]

It would appear that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have actively said 'no' to being included in ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former Train Operating Company))'s latest standalone Club 55 offer. Many other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) bordering ATW are allowing add-on fares to/from destinations on their networks. You can even get as far as Marylebone with Wrexham & Shropshire! Although that is understandable seeing as W&S^▸ (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) and ATW are both now owned by the same German outfit!

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Templates/Content.aspx?pageid=383

The last time ATW ran a standalone Club 55 promotion (as opposed to the most recent, almost countrywide, offer) journeys to/from many FGW destinations were permitted on payment of a supplement. ATW appear to have re-used the map from their last standalone offer as they still show FGW destinations.



 

[JayMac]

Club 55 also available again north of the border:

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/club55