Some ticketing advice :-)

[whole diary]

[johoare]

Hello

Next Saturday I (and 7 others) need to travel from Maidenhead to Paddington at lunchtime (including the tube).. There wil be 3 adults and five children..

Then about 6pm we need to go from Paddington to Swindon and then return from there to Maidenhead on the 11.11pm departure from Swindon...

One person travelling with us has a friends and family railcard..

However we're still struggling to find the cheapest way of doing this..

Singles seems to be the best option for each of the three legs of the journey.. but i wondered if anyone knew better?

Thanks in advance 

[Brucey]

Cheapest option is probably to take a GroupSave 4 for the adults and one child (4 tickets for the price of 2: see here http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/pr354fdc0a0400020101fea1769fbf60/details.html ) then GroupSave Child for the other 4 children (these are ^1 each provided they are bought with an adult GroupSave).  All can be bought on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) website by entering 4 adults, 4 children and railcard as GroupSave 4.

To London from Maidenhead, ^23.80 for all of you
London to Swindon, ^49.00
Swindon to Maidenhead, ^32.80

I'm not sure whether group discounts also apply to London travelcards bought from National Rail station.  There may also be ways of splitting these fares that work out more economical.

[johoare]

Thanks Brucey.

That comes to ^105.60 in total..

In single tickets (with the friends and family railcard) we found..

Maidenhead to London ^32.20
London to Swindon ^43.50
Swindon to Maidenhead ^15.10

which adds up to ^90.80

both options mean there will be additional tube/bus fares in London which will soon add up..But I think the travelcard option might be more expensive..

Additionally I'll have a Maidenhead to London all zones weekly travelcard.. But since we'll be travelling from Paddington to Swindon on a train that doesn't stop at Maidenhead I guess I can only use that for the inward journey and tube/bus (which will bring the cost down a little bit more too)..

[Brucey]

I believe the ^43.50 and ^15.10 fares are advance tickets, which GroupSave isn't valid on.

Best thing would probably be to buy Maidenhead to London with GroupSave, then buy the rest with the F&F railcard which I make a total of ^82.40.

As you've already got a Maidenhead - London, you could use that then only need to buy a GroupSave 4 (for two adults and two children), then three child GroupSaves (saving a massive ^1).

The TfL^» (Transport for London - about) website says something about a discount on child travelcards for F&F railcard holders: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx (look at the 11-15 tab).

[JayMac]

The following are all walk up fares with GroupSave 4. Slightly more expensive than possible Single Advances with F&F discount, but more flexibility and inclusive of Travelcards.

1. Maidenhead to London Zones 1-6. GroupSave 4 Off Peak Day Travelcard* ^31.00 (4 adults @^6.75, 4 children @^1.00)

For the trip out to Swindon and back to Maidenhead you may as well buy a return to Swindon from London Paddington and travel short on the return. Split this fare at Didcot though. And remember to take a London to Swindon service that calls at Didcot. Your 2311 return does.

2. London Paddington to Didcot Parkway. GroupSave 4 Off Peak Day Return ^47.00 (4 adults @^10.75, 4 children @^1.00)

3. Didcot Parkway to Swindon. GroupSave 4 Off Peak Day Return ^22.80 (4 adults @^4.70, 4 children @^1.00)

Total: ^100.80 (4 adults @^22.20, 4 children @^3.00)

GroupSave 4 will give you a greater discount than the F&F Railcard on these walk-up fares, just 'pretend' one of the children in the group is an adult. It is perfectly allowable to buy an adult ticket for a child.

*If you are planning to buy online with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) then enter Zone 1 as your destination ensuring you have also requested a return journey on the same date. Then the booking engine will give you the Travelcard option at ^31.00.


Edit to add: Of course you can buy the Advance Purchase Singles, using the F&F Railcard from Paddington - Swindon and Swindon - Maidenhead to save a few more quid on the walk-up fare prices I've quoted. Although I can't work out how you got a total of ^43.50 for PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-SWI^» (Swindon - next trains). I made it ^43.65. 

[johoare]

Thanks for all the help..

Brucey I struggled to get your price of ^23.80 on the group save from Maidenhead to Paddington? I'm getting quoted for ^19.80 group save 4 for two adults and two children and ^14.85 group save 3 for the other three children which..

Thanks bignosemac.. My price was marginally cheaper than yours and I don't think we need any flexibility in times.. And I agree. My sister came up with the ^43.50.. when I checked I found the ^43.65 you mention..

[johoare]

aah I think it was because I was using trainline.com.. it didn't seem to like groupsave 3 and 4 all for one group.. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) site is quoting me ^30 for the seven people for london travelcards.. ^4.25 more than the 7 singles on friends and family and means all tubes and buses in london will be covered too..

[JayMac]

So, I think, cheapest combination is the GroupSave 4 for the whole party from Maidenhead (pretending one child is an adult!) to London Travelcard. Added to the Advance Purchases from London - Swindon and Swindon - Maidenhead using the Family & Friends Railcard:

^31.00 Maidenhead - London Travelcard GroupSave 4 (4 adults, 4 children)
^43.65 Paddington - Swindon Advance Purchase Single (3 adults, 4 children with F&F Railcard. Plus one additional undiscounted child Advance)
^15.10 Swindon - Maidenhead Advance Purchase Single (3 adults, 4 children with F&F Railcard. Plus one additional undiscounted child Advance)

Total ^89.75

Pretty good price for your whole group inclusive of Travelcards. Suggest book Advances soon as.

There is a further saving (another ^10 ish) to be had by buying Advance Purchase fares from West Drayton - Swindon. Your Travelcards are valid as far as West Drayton. This would require travelling on a slow service from Paddington that calls at West Drayton thence a change at Reading for Swindon and you would have to select the right departure from Paddington to marry up with the Advance Purchase service from West Drayton. Currently ^34.10 for your group using the F&F Railcard on the 1806 or 1816 from West Drayton. These two trains depart Paddington at 1742 and 1757 respectively.



My brain hurts!

[johoare]

Thanks again bignosemac.. 

I just booked it.. In the end the travelcard wasn't given to me as an option with Group Save3/4 so I booked:

Maidenhead to Paddington single on Groupsave3/4 - ^22.80
Paddington to Swindon single on F&F - ^43.65 although it had to be 15 mins later than planned as price had already gone up for the train we were hoping for
Swindon to Maidenhead ^15.10
Total ^81.55..

My sister reckons she can get cheap zone 1 travelcards with her F&F railcard on trainline.com so I'll let her do that for the 5 people of the 8 that don't have either a weekly travelcard or oyster cards...

phew.. my brain hurts too 

[JayMac]

Not sure about cheap zone 1 travelcards. The price is the same with a railcard up to Zones 1-6. With the F&F Railcard you can buy Travelcards from TfL^» (Transport for London - about) priced at ^5.30ea for up to 4 adults, plus ^2.00ea for up to 4 accompanying children. I fear you have added around ^20 (for those without Seasons or Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services))  to your total by not buying the Maidenhead - London Travelcard fare.

I know its too late now but I have just double checked FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s booking engine and the ^31 Travelcard fare is there for me. Origin: Maidenhead, Destination: London Zone 1. Arbitrary return time of 1700 the same day (08/01/2011). 4 adults and 4 children and Group Save 4 selected in the 'Railcard' drop down.

[johoare]

Yeah strange.. I was getting quoted ^30 but it wouldn't let me select an outward train..just a homeward one which made it a bit difficult so I just gave up 

I have looked though, and if I do one adult and five children from Ealing broadway (for example) return to Paddington with F&F I get the all zones travelcards for ^13.30 in total which isn't bad.. I'll check my sister doesn't have any other special prices but still not a bad total overall for 8 people for the amount of travelling we will be doing..

[JayMac]

....and this thread, in microcosm, sums up just how difficult it is to find the cheapest option for a specific travel itinerary. Three people having a go at it and all coming up with different prices! Throw in GroupSave, a Railcard and TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Travelcards and the difficulty is magnified!

There's got to be an easier way. 

Having said that.... it is good to tax the little grey cells endeavouring to find the cheapest/best options. Well maybe not good for all, but I get a perverse pleasure out of trying to do so. Perhaps there's something wrong with me!

[johoare]

Indeed.. It's not simple is it..

One more query then for anyone whose brain is still working after all that...

On the TFL^▸ (Transport for London) website it says the following..

"Holders of the following:
Gold Card
Network Railcard
Family and Friends Railcard
HM Forces Railcard
can buy a Zones 1-9 Off-Peak Day Travelcard after 10:00 for just ^2 each for up to four children travelling with them"

Does this mean the adult (who owns the F&F railcard) has to buy a zone 1-9 travelcard before the four children can have theirs for ^2 each?

Or does it mean that the adult could just have a zone 1 travelcard and then the four children can all have ^2 travelcards?

If the latter is the case then we can get our travelcards for ^12 (^4 adult and then ^2 each for 4 children)

Thanks in advance 

[JayMac]

Jo, when it comes to TfL^» (Transport for London - about) ticketing I am as much in the dark as you. Much as I am loathe to admit defeat I fear your best option is call Boris! Or at least his minions at TfL Customer Services. My best guess (and it is only a guess) is that you can buy Travelcards with a F&F railcard for ^5.30 per adult (that is the standard discount price for all eligible Railcards - no matter whether it is Zones 1-2, 1-4 or 1-6), up to a max of 4 adults and you can then buy child Travelcards at ^2.00 each, again up to a max of 4.

And I also spotted that 'after 1000' clause. No mention whether it applies at weekends as well. Don't think it should, but who knows? Like I said, best call Boris. 

[johoare]

Thanks (again) will let you know how it goes..

One more question (sorry) which may or may not get answered before I leave in a couple of hours..

My journey back from Swindon to Maidenhead back at 23.11 tonight only has seat reservations as far as Didcot and in fact the journey details tell me to change there, I'm guessing onto a turbo, for the majority of the journey..

Is there any reason anyone can think of as to why I can't stay on and change at Reading? I'm assuming the train I'd get at Didcot also stops at Reading.. I'm just thinking our intercity seats have got to be more comfortable than turbo ones.. And also I'd rather change trains closer to home (just in case something goes wrong train wise.. at least Reading is just about taxi distance home, didcot isn't)..

Strangely the national rail journey planner, if the 23.11 appears at the top of a page of list of trains, tells me to change at Didcot Parkway, yet if I go to earlier trains and it appears at the bottom of the list of trains, it tells me to change at Reading