Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Along with the Reading extention, this would make much better use of the eastern end of the Crossrail route and (presumably) mean fewer Crossrail trains to/from Shenfield/Abbey Wood only running to/from Paddington.

[paul7575]

Along with the Reading extention, this would make much better use of the eastern end of the Crossrail route and (presumably) mean fewer Crossrail trains to/from Shenfield/Abbey Wood only running to/from Paddington.

The overall London and SE proposal for Crossrail includes 10 tph to Heathrow, subsuming Hex, 6 tph up the GW^▸ (Great Western), and the 8 tph I mentioned to the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line), so that soaks up the whole of the 24 tph.  In which case I'd expect the Westbourne Park turn back would become an off-peak only facility.

In which case why not move the turnback to somewhere nearer the CR depot - its layout will probably need to be re-planned anyway if as I expect the additionalWCML link will affect it...

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, I'm guessing a third set of lines continuing from where lines 1-6 end through the route taken by the current reception lines where the old Kensal Green wash plant was located.  Probably only fairly minor works required to turn them into passenger lines?  Interestingly, that area is currently being widened anyway, with a slope down to the old wash plant removed and the concrete retaining wall rebuilt a few metres further back.

[eightf48544]

I have always thought turning back 14 out of 24tph at Padd was not agood idea.

I'm not sure however if the Relief lines to Hayes can take 10 tph to Heathrow plus 6 to Reading. I thought 10tph  was the limit. Another 6 would eliminte all the daytime freight paths to Acton which presumably everyone would deplore as we all want to see an increase in Rail Freight.

[John R]

This is a really sensible move, though I worry that it will be leapt upon by the Anti HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) campaign as another example of cost creep to facilitate HS2 (Euston rebuild). The reality is that it stands on its own two feet. All predictions are that London's population will continue to grow and existing tube lines will struggle to cope in the next 10 to 20 years. This enhancement will provide relief particularly to the north eastern quadrant of the circle line, and other routes radiating from Euston. Relief that will be sorely needed once HS2 is up and running, but will be regardless.

[Oxonhutch]

Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/rus%20documents/route%20utilisation%20strategies/rus%20generation%202/london%20and%20south%20east/consultation%20responses/s/spencer,%20philip%201.pdf
Proposal to take over the Electric Lines to Watford Junction by tunnelling from OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)).

[paul7575]

Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/rus%20documents/route%20utilisation%20strategies/rus%20generation%202/london%20and%20south%20east/consultation%20responses/s/spencer,%20philip%201.pdf
Proposal to take over the Electric Lines to Watford Junction by tunnelling from OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)).

Loads of info there, but AFAICS^▸ (As Far As I Can See) it is just a third party input to the London and SE consultation, although it can be found on NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s website it isn't necessarily indicative of NR's current thinking, if at all.

Paul

[Electric train]

My belief is this is to take trains out of Euston to make the rebuild for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) easier, also if the Watford Overground dc services were terminated at Willesden Jcn this would give even more spare capacity.

It does make sense actually to run the Tring / London locals through Crossrail, even better if an inter change station is built at OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) with HS2, NNL, Central Line and West London Line

[paul7575]

My belief is this is to take trains out of Euston to make the rebuild for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) easier, also if the Watford Overground dc services were terminated at Willesden Jcn this would give even more spare capacity.

Helping the Euston rebuild is a secondary benefit (albeit an important one) - but the gap the proposal in the RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) is dealing with is basically WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) capacity.   They mention inter alia that it works without HS2 somewhere as well.

8.3.8 The standalone scheme would improve
journey times to and from Central London for most
passengers currently using the affected WCML
services and reduce crowding on the public transport
network feeding the Euston area, particularly
the Underground.
8.3.9 Implementation of the scheme in
conjunction with HS2 would also generate these
benefits, at a higher level than the standalone
scheme. The business case analysis does not
include any temporary benefits associated with HS2
engineering works in the Euston station area.

In the analysis of option K1 they also mention this: "The resulting 8tph via Watford Junction to Crossrail would replace most slow line services to London Euston", suggesting that they aren't just proposing a couple of services to Tring...

Paul.

[eightf48544]

If they are going to run Crossrail to Tring (why not Milton Keynes?) it does bring up the whole question of toilets and sideways seating!

The Milton Keynes suggestion is a stone in the pond, thinking of connections to East West etc.

[stuving]

Here are reports of the unsurprise ministerial announcement from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

Government launches study into potential Crossrail extension
From:Department for Transport and The Rt Hon Patrick McLoughlin MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) History:Published 7 August 2014

Plans would see faster rail services for Hertfordshire passengers and pave the way for a more ambitious redevelopment of Euston station.Rail passengers in Hertfordshire could benefit from quicker services that are more direct into central London.

In a move that would boost ambitious plans to redevelop Euston station for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), a feasibility study will look at how passengers from key commuter towns such as Tring, Hemel Hempstead, Harrow and Watford could save up to 15 minutes on their journey times via a new rail link between Old Oak Common and the West Coast Main Line.

The proposed changes would see Crossrail services extended to the county, providing direct journeys into the City and the West End. It would mean passengers would no longer have to change at Euston, making it easier to get on with the massive job of rebuilding the station so it matches the standard of Kings Cross and St Pancras.

The announcement came as Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin visited Farringdon station today (7 August 2014), where he met with the 100th apprentice appointed by Crossrail contractor Bam Ferrovial Kier to work on Europe^s largest infrastructure project.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said:

We are investing record amounts to build a world-class railway, so it is vital we seize every opportunity to make the most of these once in a generation schemes. That is why I have asked HS2 Limited to work closely with the Crossrail sponsors to look at extending Crossrail services to key destinations in Hertfordshire. Not only would this be a huge boost to passengers and the local economy, it would also provide flexibility when building HS2 into Euston, making sure we create a lasting legacy for the station.

Crossrail
Stations that could be serviced by Crossrail include Tring, Hemel Hempstead, Watford Junction, Berkhamstead and Harrow and Wealdstone. Any changes will not affect the timetable or planned service pattern for the existing Crossrail scheme which is scheduled to be fully operational by 2019.

Initial analysis suggests 40% of passengers travelling into London from these locations finish their journeys within 1 kilometre of a Crossrail station, compared to just 10% within 1km of Euston. The link would have the added benefit of reducing congestion at the station, specifically for passengers using the southbound Northern and Victoria lines.

The Mayor of London Boris Johnson said:

I have always maintained that the renaissance of Euston is a fantastic opportunity for regeneration in our city and one we should not miss. Providing a new rail route into the capital for passengers from Hertfordshire will be vital for Euston to be properly redeveloped to accommodate HS2 and to maximise the delivery of new homes and jobs in London and beyond.
...

The departmental weasels haven't done a very good job on the first sentence. What Crossrail offers in Herts is faster direct trains to most of central London, not faster trains that are also more direct. The case is similar to Reading, and I'm sure we will hear similar complaints about any loss of the current semi-fasts to Euston. The big difference is that out to Watford there is already a Crossrail-type service on the DC^▸ (Direct Current) lines, and six tracks or more that far.

I've looked for some typical times and mileages:

Miles (ex PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains)/EUS) slow Xrail semifast fast Slough 19 40 25 15 Watford 17 50 30-40* 20 15 Maidenhead 24 50 35 25 20 Reading 36 60 50 45 30 Tring 32 - 45* 35 - Milton Keynes 50 - 70* 60 30 * my estimates (see below for Watford) (Bakerloo is slightly quicker to PAD than LO to EUS from common section!) Categories fast/semifast/slow don't match exactly, due to different number of tracks etc. PAD semifastsMAI▸ (Maidenhead station) fasts are not a regular service like at EUS, more a few specific peak-hour trains. Looking for times on the Crossrail website, I find that LST-Shenfield is 41 minutes for 20 miles/14 stops, while PAD-MAI is 36 minutes for 24miles/13 stops). Why? Is that the effect of skip/stop? I'm not sure which to use for Watford. Of course someone may have better (i.e. based on real plans) figures. I think MK▸ (Milton Keynes) is really to far for this kind of Metro service.

[BBM]

Interesting view of the latest Crossrail extension proposals from London Reconnections:

Crossrail to Tring: A HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) Hijack

[IndustryInsider]

Interesting article, BBM, and well worth a read.  Thanks for posting the link.

[onthecushions]

As well as the advantages described, the improved Thames Valley - Watford (aka Gade Valley) connection should be very useful. Morning business trips via M4/M25/M1 are a pain.

In addition to Tring, St Alban's City might be a popular termination.

With all the work to be done around OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)), perhaps the 6 tracks out of Paddington could also be taken as far out as Ealing Broadway.

OTC
 

[IndustryInsider]

With all the work to be done around OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)), perhaps the 6 tracks out of Paddington could also be taken as far out as Ealing Broadway.

Whilst desirable, that wouldn't be possible without a huge amount of money being spent.  The railway goes into a small cutting just after Old Oak Common, then you have the Up and Down Poplar lines coming in, followed closely by Acton Main Line station, then Acton Yard, before the final hurdle of the Central Line gets in the way!