Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[stuving]

...............a major rail project delayed? Surely not............you'll be suggesting that it's overspent next! 

Or RAIL magazine got their info wrong (again)....

This is from a recent ICE article on Crossrail, but I think the dates are the original ones:

The Crossrail programme is structured to deliver a series of
opening stages as follows.
■ Stage 1: progressive introduction of new class 345 rolling stock
on existing suburban services between Liverpool Street and
Shenfield (May 2017).
■ Stage 2: on-network works between Heathrow and Westbourne
Park, including services running at a frequency of four trains
per hour from Paddington station to Heathrow (May 2018).
■ Stage 3: Elizabeth line services running between Paddington
low-level and Abbey Wood stations (December 2018).
■ Stage 4: through-running of Elizabeth line services between
Paddington low-level and both Shenfield and Abbey Wood
(May 2019).
■ Stage 5: full Elizabeth line service from Reading and Heathrow
through the central operating section to Shenfield and Abbey
Wood (December 2019).

So if they aren't yet running any 345s to Shenfield, that's a bit of a delay. But it's hardly a big hard project deadline, hence the lack of publicity about it. It's more of a "let's us and the lads try them out for real as soon as we've got a few" kind of step.

[stuving]

Originally was going to be 10 x 20m cars, but Bombardier offered 9 x 23m. Most suburban stock is still 20m.

There is an option to extend by another 2 cars and the central platforms have been dug out with this in mind. I suspect it won't be too long before this is needed.

Last year I reported this from a presentation by Crossrail/Bombadier:

Extending to 11-car is not a simple option; the power design hasn't been done to allow for it. At least one extra power bogie per "half" is needed (that gradient again), and presumably some uprating of other components to feed it. (But this was an off-the-cuff reply and may not be Bombardier's last word on the subject).

It was also pointed out that all the Heathrow platforms are only 200-and-few metres long. (You can check this in HAL's Timetable Planning Rules.) So their view was that the stretch to 11 cars wouldn't happen.

In any case, I suspect a lot of factors would result in the extra pax carried being far lower than the 25%-ish nominal increase. Would people spread out over the whole length to match the spare capacity? Will they spread along the (open-plan) trains of any length to even the load when they are really busy?

And splitting the fleet so as to run 9-car to Heathrow and 11-car for other trains would not only be operationally awkward, but would make the passenger spreading problem even worse.

[paul7575]

If you go back all the way to the original Crossrail rolling stock tender, it was actually for a fleet of 100m units to normally run in pairs, and they seriously mentioned running short trains in the off-peak and at weekends.

I once read that requirement fell at the wayside as soon as the platform edge door decision was made.   Some 5 car trains alongside 10 car PEDs would introduce another potential failure mode.

Paul

[SandTEngineer]

.....and the depot at OOCD has been designed for 9-Car trains with space for future provision of maximum 10-car trains (by extending the stabling sidings at the buffer stops into the access road).

[IndustryInsider]

Although seats seem to be a lesser priority to standing room.

In terms of seats it's 454 per train, just under 100 of which are traditional facing/back seats at bays of four with the rest being longitudinal.  That is pretty much identical to what is currently provided by a 5-car Turbo or an 8-car Class 387.  Frequency increases at most stations will, I imagine, result in a slight increase in seating provision on what is provided today, with much better provision for standing.  Though I would personally have liked to see a few more seats (though that would be difficult given the six doors per carriage layout) and a couple of toilets.

[didcotdean]

Yes I believe the total stated capacity is 1500 per train, ie a bit over 1000 standing.

[Electric train]

Yes I believe the total stated capacity is 1500 per train, ie a bit over 1000 standing.

Crossrail aka The Elizabeth Line has always been designated as a Metro Service the same a London Underground.

I am so glad I will be retired before I have to use it to commute to work 

[Adelante_CCT]

The first Class 345 entered passenger service yesterday -
Londonist report
Timings

[John R]

You can't help but notice the vast amount of new development in the Hayes & Harlington area, and indeed now a big site is being cleared at Southall. I suspect it's not totally coincidental as it is well known that improved rail links tends to encourage development, but I do wonder how long before the additional capacity gets used up.

[Bmblbzzz]

If you go back all the way to the original Crossrail rolling stock tender, it was actually for a fleet of 100m units to normally run in pairs, and they seriously mentioned running short trains in the off-peak and at weekends.

I once read that requirement fell at the wayside as soon as the platform edge door decision was made.   Some 5 car trains alongside 10 car PEDs would introduce another potential failure mode.

Paul

PEDs? Not performance enhancing drugs in this context!

[grahame]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40458246

Crossrail stations in west London delayed until 2019

by Tom Edwards, Transport correspondent, London

"On time and on budget" is the mantra Crossrail have used thousands of times over the years. They can't use it anymore.

I've learnt that five new Crossrail stations that were due to be built in west London by Network Rail will be delayed.
Acton, West Ealing, Hayes and Harlington and Southall were due to be finished by the end of this year. Ealing Broadway was meant to completed by end of January next year.

That's all gone out of the window and they'll now be upgraded by the summer of 2019.

Today in West Ealing the building site is empty with little work completed - it was meant to be finished by the end of next month.

Local residents, like Dr Ben Sherliker have been fighting for months, if not years, to get answers from Network Rail but he says they have been kept in the dark. They were told there were only "minor delays".
[continues]

[paul7575]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40458246
...

I've learnt that five new Crossrail stations that were due to be built in west London by Network Rail will be delayed.

Upgraded surely?   Just a bit of exaggeration - as is usual with the media.

Paul

[stuving]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40458246
...

I've learnt that five new Crossrail stations that were due to be built in west London by Network Rail will be delayed.

Upgraded surely?   Just a bit of exaggeration - as is usual with the media.

Paul

And if they meet those dates, they will still be well before the trains run - which is the real definition of "on time". It's not like building the new bits in tunnels, where missing an internal deadline may push the whole critical path off the end.

[Chris125]

Upgraded surely?   Just a bit of exaggeration - as is usual with the media.

Paul

Seems fine to me - the work being delayed is the construction of new station buildings at those locations.

[paul7575]

Upgraded surely?   Just a bit of exaggeration - as is usual with the media.

Paul

Seems fine to me - the work being delayed is the construction of new station buildings at those locations.

Then he should have replacement station buildings, not new stations.  The stations exist.