Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Wharncliffe and Hanwell viaducts would also be very significant obstacles to a 6-track railway as well as those that have been mentioned.  Can't see it ever happening in a traditional 6-track sense.  A more likely (but still unlikely) way forward would be a tunnelled separate High Speed route from
London to a significant way out.

Isn't it cheaper to raise the tracks/cf on stilts for sxample, than tunnel? Far easier too?

[IndustryInsider]

Quite possibly cheaper but I would think that method would be very difficult to bring to fruition, as it would be very hard to get the various planning consents needed.  Also, with a tunnel you can go pretty much what route you please without having to choose an alignment that fits in with all the various existing buildings and topography above ground which makes suburban London so difficult.  Hence HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) finally deciding on tunnelling out as far as Ruislip which is the equivalent distance to West Drayton on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line).

[4064ReadingAbbey]

Quite possibly cheaper but I would think that method would be very difficult to bring to fruition, as it would be very hard to get the various planning consents needed.  Also, with a tunnel you can go pretty much what route you please without having to choose an alignment that fits in with all the various existing buildings and topography above ground which makes suburban London so difficult.  Hence HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) finally deciding on tunnelling out as far as Ruislip which is the equivalent distance to West Drayton on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line).

I would argue that if TfL^» (Transport for London - about) wants to increase the frequency of Crossrail trains in London then it should do that in a manner which does not disadvantage other users of public transport - many of whom will be well out of TfL's area. The corollary is that it should build its own dedicated tracks. Taking up IndustryInsider's point about tunnelling enabling one to build the route that one pleases then I would suggest Crossrail could build a swoop to the north of the GW^▸ (Great Western) route through Greenford, Yeading, Hillingdon, Cowley/Uxbridge, Iver Heath, Wexham then cross under the GW main line at Slough and terminate at Windsor Central.

Windsor is quite far enough to travel on what is essentially a tube train and these other areas would get a much more direct and faster link to the centre of London!

This would leave the GW able to run a semi-fast/stopping service on the Relief lines more suitable for the areas out to Oxford and Newbury and also leave space for the freight trains. It would also mean the Crossrail trains won't get in the way of the additional trains serving Heathrow using the proposed Western Approaches.

What's not to like?

[ChrisB]

London tax-payers would be funding the tunnelling outside London? Oohh, can't have that!

While TfL^» (Transport for London - about) will happily take over lines outwith their jurisdiction free of charge, they won't allow their tax-payers to fund projects outside their area, oh no!

[eightf48544]

Rumour has it switch on Stockley Jn to Maidenhead this Sunday 26/3.

I'll be off down to Taplow to hug the footbridge.

[Thatcham Crossing]

3) Stabling sidings:

I noticed these whilst whizzing through Maidenhead yesterday.

It looks like there are 4 or 5 sidings .....is this all going to be needed, bearing in mind that Crossrail will now go to Reading, and presumably 387's will only terminate/turn-around at Maidenhead until they start to be used on services further west?

[stuving]

3) Stabling sidings:

I noticed these whilst whizzing through Maidenhead yesterday.

It looks like there are 4 or 5 sidings .....is this all going to be needed, bearing in mind that Crossrail will now go to Reading, and presumably 387's will only terminate/turn-around at Maidenhead until they start to be used on services further west?

I'm dubious of the logic that suggests.

Trains usually turn at platform if they can, and would only go to a siding for a longer wait or if space is really short (as may be true at Reading before long). Where you want to start and end peak-only diagrams is, I suspect, quite a complicated matter.

Most trains start from wherever they live, not usually a passenger hub, and travel to their start point ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock). Maidenhead would be better than that for any start point into London other than Reading: Maidenhead, Slough, West Drayton, or even further east. So why not, if the land's already lined up? I don't think there's much space, if any, for Crossrail at Reading.

In any case, the notion that you mustn't have a siding unless it's used every night is the kind of thing that gets today's railway planners (and the accountants and other lurking behind them) a bad name.

[IndustryInsider]

Six sidings to be used for overnight stabling/cleaning.  I imagine they'll be used for the early services in from Reading or Maidenhead.  Whether all six will be in regular use, who knows, but stabling space is at a premium with the number of additional carriages being brought in and I doubt they'll be room for many 9-car trains at Reading.  Daytime trains should used the platforms or turn back siding at Maidenhead most of the time I'd have thought.

[mods: perhaps these discussions should be moved to the Crossrail thread?]

[Thatcham Crossing]

Thanks for the replies, guess I'm not as much of an expert on railway ops as I think I am 

Having said that there were quite a few 387's parked up at West Ealing (I think it is, outside Plasser's) when I passed yesterday, maybe Maidenhead will be a better stabling home for them?

[TaplowGreen]

No offence, but what have the number of sidings at Maidenhead for Crossrail etc got to do with infrastructure problems causing delays? Shouldn't this be on another thread?

[paul7575]

Does anyone know of a link to a finalised track layout for Maidenhead?   

I do have a diagram downloaded from the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) site a few years ago, but I reckon it is now overtaken by events, such as not building a new platform for the branch...

Paul

[Chris from Nailsea]

[mods: perhaps these discussions should be moved to the Crossrail thread?]

Shouldn't this be on another thread?

Now done.  CfN. 

[IndustryInsider]

Three noteworthy items:

1) The track for the Maidenhead Turnback Siding was laid over the weekend.  To be ballasted, tamped and commissioned over next weekend presumably?

2) The extended part of Platform 12 at Paddington, what will be the widened old Platform 13, has had canopy support structures installed out to what will be the platform edge, so there will be full canopy coverage.  I remember somebody asking the question a while back.

3) Island platform extensions at Hayes, Southall, West Ealing and Acton Main Line are now being constructed, in readiness for 9-car trains from May 2018.  Other locations and platforms that need extensions look likely to be started on imminently.

[IndustryInsider]

The turnback siding and remaining four stabling sidings at Maidenhead were commissioned over the weekend - as can be seen by the pretty red lights on the OpenTrainTimes map.

Only available for emergency use until the walkways and other furnishings are finished in a few weeks.

[SandTEngineer]

The turnbuckles siding and remaining four stabling sidings at Maidenhead were commissioned over the weekend - as can be seen by the pretty red lights on the OpenTrainTimes map.

Only available for emergency use until the walkways and other furnishings are finished in a few weeks.

...love the new name for a turnback siding....