Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Marlburian]

Call for a public inquiry into the delay
 
Often I despair at the standard of comments on local news websites, but at the end of the article are some suggestions that I like, including "[Inquiry] Meetings should be held on hard seats and without toilets. You know... Practice what you preach."

But another person is woefully uninformed: "Budget restraints mean it will only go as far as Maidenhead. Ground surveys between Maidenhead and Reading revealed difficult conditions requiring the further funding, which I am told will be refused".

Marlburian

[stuving]

The latest bout of S&S seems to have been kicked off by Transport Commissioner Mike Brown's statement to the London Assembly Budget and Performance Committee on Tuesday. There is not AFAICS^▸ (As Far As I Can See) any minute or recording of that, but the Assembly's own statement (via the deputy Chair) in response was:

“Yesterday, the Committee questioned TfL^» (Transport for London - about) on its 2020-21 Budget and it is clear that Crossrail is still dominating TfL’s budget.  We were told that the central section of Crossrail is likely to be further delayed until Autumn 2021 with an extra £400 million to £650 million investment needed. 

“Today, the Mayor said that he’s confident that this funding will be enough to open Crossrail within the timeline that was outlined to the Committee yesterday. 

“There’s been promise after promise on when Crossrail will be opened and on what budget.  The London Assembly will be watching the developments of Crossrail very closely and will be asking the questions that Londoners want the answers to, to ensure that Crossrail is finally delivered by the new timeline outlined by TfL.”

Then on Wednesday there was an Assembly Transport Committee meeting, after which the chair of that said:

“We welcome a concrete start date for Crossrail. Of course, we will still have questions over the time-frame as we want to be sure it is realistic and that it won’t slip again. We also want assurance that there will be no further increase in the final cost.
 
“Crossrail will be a huge benefit to Londoners when it finally opens in 2021.
 
“The Transport Committee will continue to watch developments closely and will be asking tough questions of the Mayor, TfL and Crossrail Ltd to ensure Londoners get the answers they need and are not left disappointed again.”

Now I thought summer 2021 was the "most likely" date we had before, though within a wider window. Mike Brown's later date was, as noted, given in th context of TfL's budget - he was saying it might be done earlier, but them's chickens and I'm not counting them just now. Or put another way the window of "likely" dates is still pretty wide, and we'll have to see how the "most likely" date moves within it.

[grahame]

From the Independent

The Elizabeth Line, as the link has been named, will initially open between Paddington and Abbey Wood in southeast London in “summer 2021”. The Independent has learnt that Crossrail’s definition of “summer” stretches to September.

Initially the line from Paddington will serve stations including Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road, Farringdon, Liverpool Street, Whitechapel and Canary Wharf.

The full service connecting Shenfield in Essex with Heathrow and stations to Reading “will commence by mid-2022”. The target month is believed to be May, to coincide with one of the two annual timetable changes.

Looks like three lines in summer 2021 ...
1. Reading and Heathrow to Paddington Main Line
2. Paddington Low Level to Abbey Wood via Liverpool Street Low Level
3. Liverpool Street Main Line to Shenfield

[Surrey 455]

From the Independent

The Elizabeth Line, as the link has been named, will initially open between Paddington and Abbey Wood in southeast London in “summer 2021”. The Independent has learnt that Crossrail’s definition of “summer” stretches to September.

If you go by the traditional astronomical definition of Summer (which I do) then most of September is in the Summer. The exact dates are not fixed, but Summer this year is between 20th June and 21st September. There is also a meteorological definition of the seasons where Summer is fixed at 1st June to 31st August.

[Marlburian]

Whether Reading will get 'London Weighting' as Elizabeth Line puts town on Tube map

Presumably employers will offer the rate necessary to get the staff they need? But, who knows, in ten years' time AI may have done away with some/many unconventional jobs and people will be desperate for work?

'[Dr Reade] concluded by saying Crossrail was not a "game changer" for people in Reading.  He said: "Basically, Reading already enjoys most of the benefits it is likely to see from being close to London.
This will make things a little more attractive again but it’s not a game changer apart from those who no longer need to change at Paddington to get over to ‘the City’."

Does he really think that City types are going to spend 57 minutes getting to Reading from Paddington to avoid changing there, when a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service will get them there in 22 minutes?

(Dunno how easy it will be to get from the mainline station to the Crossrail one?)

Marlburian

[Reading General]

This is such an odd situation. The town’s name has been put on the tube map in london but this places it further away in time. It doesn’t appear to be of any advantage to anyone other than increasing local house prices because of initial appearances and TFL^▸ (Transport for London)’s collection of fares beyond their boundary. As pointed out in the article, Reading has been in within the reach of london for many years so why should anything change. Confusion about what it is until now will possibly lead to it being a disadvantage for the town for the vast majority who don’t work in london. Being on the underground map is unnecessary.

[Bmblbzzz]

This is such an odd situation. The town’s name has been put on the tube map in london but this places it further away in time.

It sounds like an episode of Dr Who.

[CJB666]

Re: Crassrail / CrossElizabeth / Tin Lizzie Line / MTR / T4L / whatever ...

- there some discussion threads here:

https://www.mylondon.news/search/?q=crossrail

Crossrail is widely advertised as now running from Paddington to / from Reading. But does it? It was always intended to go as far as Maidenhead, but Twyford?

At Paddington Crossrail is very clearly advertised as only going as far as Twyford. This is highy confusing, especially for visitors or those with Freedom passes.

So having got as far as Twyford, what do folks do? There are few trains that go from Tywford to Reading because Crossrail has taken over all of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) local services. What GWR services remain are the hourly Didcots. Very strange.

==

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/10-ways-crossrail-transform-west-17400623

What disgusting and filthy trains. Have passengers noticed how filthy Crosrail trains have become? Already the purple seats are showing wear in the seating bays where idiots put their filthy shoes up onto the opposite seats. There are no announcements, no posters, nor train managers telling them not to do this. And when the weather is filthy the floors of the trains are covered in mud and salt. The trains are not wearing well, and they have only been running for less than a year.

==

https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/crossrail-arent-any-toilets-elizabeth-17373708

Crassrail / MTR / TfL^» (Transport for London - about) states that all stations will have toilets. Not so at Hayes & Harlington. But anyway these would be useless on long journeys for those wth prostate or urinary problems. So suggestions for 'toilets' on the TinLizzy Line are that : a/ men could use water bottles - discretely, and b/ women could use a 'festival shute' and bottle as used by women at music festivals so that they can stand up in men's urinal areas.

==

On the new trains why are there no announcements about tissue sellers and beggars being illegal. These are a menace on GWR ad Crossrail trains usually emanating from Slough and travelling between Ealing Broadway and Twyford - likely without tickets.

==

Why are there no facilities for the disabled on the new trains, e.g. for wheelchair users? The 'gap' between the trains and platforms is huge. And staff are not always available to help. At best staff to help have to be booked in advance which makes a nonsense of a 'turn up and go' commuter rail service. At Hayes (where they have suicides) the T4L staff tend to congregate around the ticket office, rarely are they seen on the platforms and very rarely on platforms 2 / 3, and not at all when platform 1 is in use.

==

Why is the 'shelter' on platforms 4 / 5 at Hayes & Harlington so useless? TfL / MTR / NR^» (Network Rail - home page) have already stated that it will not be improved. It is open to gales, rain and snow. Why are passengers having to suffer because no-one wants to put a decent shelter there? So much for a modern Crossrail service.

==

Why will there be no parking for the disabled at Hayes & Harlington Station? Why will there be no drop off / pick up areas at the new station? Black cabs from Heathrow have already 'blacked' serving the station due to being fined whenever they take folks there.

====

[Celestial]

Re: Crassrail / CrossElizabeth / Tin Lizzie Line / MTR / T4L / whatever ...

- there some discussion threads here:

https://www.mylondon.news/search/?q=crossrail

Crossrail is widely advertised as now running from Paddington to / from Reading. But does it? It was always intended to go as far as Maidenhead, but Twyford?

At Paddington Crossrail is very clearly advertised as only going as far as Twyford. This is highy confusing, especially for visitors or those with Freedom passes.

So having got as far as Twyford, what do folks do? There are few trains that go from Tywford to Reading because Crossrail has taken over all of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) local services. What GWR services remain are the hourly Didcots. Very strange.

How about Crossrail or TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Rail or Elizabeth Line?  Your opener gives away your preconceptions that nothing about the service is going to be any good. 

As for what do folks do, they stay on to Reading, as per the timetable. It's been fairly normal for many years for stopping services only to be advertised to the station before the terminus, to avoid confusion with faster services.  eg Stopping services to Oxford are shown as for Radley; at Kings Cross, stopping services to Cambridge are shown as to Foxton. So nothing to do with TfL and a bit of a rant about nothing really. 

[CJB666]

But taken seriously on uk.railway ...

[didcotdean]

When the actual Crossrail platforms are finally in use at Paddington sometime this decade, the practice of displaying a short destination will presumably cease.

[Bmblbzzz]

Re: Crassrail / CrossElizabeth / Tin Lizzie Line / MTR / T4L / whatever ...

- there some discussion threads here:

https://www.mylondon.news/search/?q=crossrail

Crossrail is widely advertised as now running from Paddington to / from Reading. But does it? It was always intended to go as far as Maidenhead, but Twyford?

At Paddington Crossrail is very clearly advertised as only going as far as Twyford. This is highy confusing, especially for visitors or those with Freedom passes.

So having got as far as Twyford, what do folks do? There are few trains that go from Tywford to Reading because Crossrail has taken over all of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) local services. What GWR services remain are the hourly Didcots. Very strange.

How about Crossrail or TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Rail or Elizabeth Line?  Your opener gives away your preconceptions that nothing about the service is going to be any good. 

Are those (Crassrail etc) CJB's usage? I thought he was using them as examples of what's being said elsewhere.

[Celestial]

Re: Crassrail / CrossElizabeth / Tin Lizzie Line / MTR / T4L / whatever ...

- there some discussion threads here:

https://www.mylondon.news/search/?q=crossrail

Crossrail is widely advertised as now running from Paddington to / from Reading. But does it? It was always intended to go as far as Maidenhead, but Twyford?

At Paddington Crossrail is very clearly advertised as only going as far as Twyford. This is highy confusing, especially for visitors or those with Freedom passes.

So having got as far as Twyford, what do folks do? There are few trains that go from Tywford to Reading because Crossrail has taken over all of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) local services. What GWR services remain are the hourly Didcots. Very strange.

How about Crossrail or TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Rail or Elizabeth Line?  Your opener gives away your preconceptions that nothing about the service is going to be any good. 

Are those (Crassrail etc) CJB's usage? I thought he was using them as examples of what's being said elsewhere.

Probably not original, but none of the links reference examples of such usage (as far as I can see), so in that context as an opener it comes across as "I don't like this service so I'm going to complain about everything I can think of." eg, no announcements about tissue sellers being illegal. Hardly important in the grander scheme of things is it.

[grahame]

But taken seriously on uk.railway ...

Maybe, but the Coffee Shop is not uk.railway.   Let's form our own pragmatic views - the (at times) critical friend to the rail industry, pointing out problems and issues where they exist, but looking to understand why they exist and suggesting positive changes where that's possible.  And calling companies and their brand names by a derogatory distortion of their name may be fun once or twice, it may make you feel good, but if you get known for doing it on a regular basis it sours the relationship with the company so that co-operation is limited by mistrust long after the fun is over.

Now - final destination ... should departure boards show the final destination of the passenger service, or the final practical station that passengers will use the train to get to?

As other posters have said, it's not just Paddington to Twyford (or is that Reading?) and Paddington to Radley (or is that Oxford?) - it's also Oxford to Ealing Broadway (or is that Paddington?), Edinburgh Waverley to Kirkcaldy (or is that to Edinburgh Waverley?) and Romsey to Southampton Airport (or is that to Romsey?)

I am happy to be swayed on this one, but I think I prefer the train to be described by the final logical passenger stop; seen too many people (and been caught out once or twice) by getting on a train advertised as going where I want, to be overtaken on the way by a faster train ...

[Marlburian]

... So having got as far as Twyford, what do folks do? There are few trains that go from Tywford to Reading because Crossrail has taken over all of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) local services. What GWR services remain are the hourly Didcots. Very strange...

Glancing at the timetable I see that during the week there seem to be four Twyford-Reading trains every hour during the day and in the early afternoon I noted five in 61 minutes. Some do run very close one to another, and there can be a 23-minute wait.

On the matter of feet-on-seats, I'm a hater too and when I first glanced inside a TFL^▸ (Transport for London) train my reaction was that the layout seemed to encourage the (mal)practice, unlike with the new FGW^▸ (First Great Western) trains.

Marlburian