All Line Rovers - Restrictions

[whole diary]

[old original]

I've heard that the All line rovers will be subject to new time restrictions come January. It apparently involves half a dozen TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) (NOT FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) and travel out of major hubs i.e. Euston, Birmingham etc.  before 10.00 weekdays. Is there anybody "in the know" who can shed more light on this?

[JayMac]

You are indeed correct with what you've heard. If you're signed up with RailUK Forums you can read up on the details of this shameful bit of ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) fares manipulation. I blame Andrew Adonis for his use of said Rover earlier this year. He brought it to the attention of a wider public and consequently savvy business travellers realised it offered a substantial saving over their Anytime Returns when they were travelling too infrequently for a Season but often enough over 7/14 days.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38994

You're right to say that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have not been included in the morning peak restriction on the All Line Rover. Good on FGW I say!

One possible crumb of comfort is that the latest FGW comprehensive timetable says this:

The All Line Rover allows unlimited travel on all scheduled National Rail services at any time...

My emphasis in bold.

And, importantly, from a legal standpoint there is nothing in the FGW timetable book that says anything along the lines of 'Errors and omissions excepted' or 'correct at the time of going to press'.

So it could be argued under the terms of the 'Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999' that the ALR^▸ (All Line Rover) is still valid on all services. The legislation states that: 'Where there is ambiguity in the terms, the interpretation more favourable to the consumer shall prevail'.

One to argue (politely) with a TM^‡(resolve) out of Brum New St (or any location where the new 'not before 1000' rule applies). Accept nothing more than UPFN^▸ (Un Paid Fare Notice (used on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)))) or TIR^▸ (Travel Irregularity Report) would be my advice.

However, I'm not, nor ever have been, a lawyer.

[SDS]

R07 / 14R ALL LINE RAIL ROVER

Validity
Code AL

Travel Restrictions

Not valid for boarding or alighting train services operated by CrossCountry, East Coast, East Midlands Trains, Virgin Trains, before 10.00 Mondays ^ Fridays at the following stations:

Birmingham New Street
Bedford
London Euston
London Kings Cross
London St Pancras
Luton
Luton Airport Parkway
Milton Keynes Central
Stevenage
Watford Junction
No restrictions apply on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays.

[old original]

Thanks for the info people. Some alterations to the usual summer trip will be required.

[IndustryInsider]

You have to ask what impact, other than on the poor rover holder, that will have?  Especially at somewhere like Bedford, Luton and Stevenage.

[grahame]

Many years ago, I lived in London and on a couple of occasions treated my self to an all-line rover ... catching really early trains out to all sorts of distant places. Had 10 a.m. restrictions been in place they would have seriously impacted what I did - perhaps to the extent of leading me to look for an alternative (and perhaps not so rail-based, or not so expensive) treat.   

One of the great freedoms was to be able to travel and just get off an on trains at a whim without having to think "can I get on this one";  it looks like that freedom has gone and the whole "go anywhere, anytime" ethos of the ticket will be no more.

Are similar restrictions to be applied to BritRail passes?

[grahame]

Reading further into this ... "not valid for boarding at King's Cross" ... you could buy a walkup King's Cross to Finsbury Park, and then the rover would be valid from there.  No need for the train to stop at the point of switching from one ticket to the other, as the interface is between a rover ticket and a fixed journey / walkup one, which is an exception to the "must stop" rule ...

[devon_metro]

Reading further into this ... "not valid for boarding at King's Cross" ... you could buy a walkup King's Cross to Finsbury Park, and then the rover would be valid from there.  No need for the train to stop at the point of switching from one ticket to the other, as the interface is between a rover ticket and a fixed journey / walkup one, which is an exception to the "must stop" rule ...

Correct, there are plenty of work arounds, even so, still a bit of a con

[readytostart]

The Birmingham New Street restriction is a little pointless as most long distance services will call at a station around ten to fifteen minutes after departure and all you theoretically need to do is buy a single ticket to that station:-
Sandwell and Dudley or Wolves to the North West; Tamworth or Burton to the North East; International or Leamington to the South East and University to the South West (and then a change at CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains) for Bristol and onwards).

As usual it's the black lining of the cloud that gets reported (the silver lining is for railcard holders and kids) below is the second part of the email I received briefing the changes, the first part already spelled out by SDS:-

All Line Rover Product Changes ^
The following All Line Rover product changes come into affect from 02nd January 2011:
 
Discount Changes:
- All Child rate All Line Rovers will be issued at a 50% discount rather than the current 34% discount.
- HM Forces Railcard holders and accompanying adults and children will be able to get a Railcard discount on Standard and First Class tickets.
- Family & Friends Railcard holders and accompanying adults and children will be able to get a Railcard discount on Standard tickets
- All other discounts remain the same.

[JayMac]

A contributor to RailUK Forum has posted what he says is a, 'very important message from ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) passed on to me from a very well connected person...'

It is counted under the National Conditions and this IS allowed. The problem is that ATOC have told me that if people do this then the only step left will be a total time restriction of, say, 1000 and that will kill it.

ATOC is aware of the Forum and are anxious as they don't want the rover killed off but are under pressure from some TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to prevent abuse - even if the 'abuse' is in fact legitimate.

So it seems ATOC are aware of ALR^▸ (All Line Rover) holders potentially using the legitimate rules on split ticketing to get round the 'not before 1000' restriction. They are petulantly threatening even greater restrictions should the ALR be used in this perfectly allowable way.

They call it abuse, I call them shysters. 

[grahame]

It is counted under the National Conditions and this IS allowed. The problem is that ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) have told me that if people do this then the only step left will be a total time restriction of, say, 1000 and that will kill it.

ATOC is aware of the Forum and are anxious as they don't want the rover killed off but are under pressure from some TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to prevent abuse - even if the 'abuse' is in fact legitimate.

I don't 'get' why the restrictions are needed in the first place ... I would have thought that if you spend 450 pounds for a week's travel, that should be enough money to travel when and where you like!   And if the restrictions weren't applied, then we wouldn't need to be discussing the fine points of what ATOC seem to consider 'abuse'.

Take a 450 pound fare that's previously been available 168 hours a week in and out of the London termini, and reducer it to 118 hours a week from those same stations - that's 70% of the time - perhaps that is abuse of position by ATOC.   Aren't these the same people who object to web sites that help people work our split fares even though - once again - ATOC are the ones representing the very companies that set the fares and make that system in the first place 

There are, though, practical reasons for the rail industry to increase its income.   If they promise me (and keep their promise) that the extra revenue they make from this change will be used to pay for a service at my local station up to the level deemed appropriate in the GWRUS^▸ (Great Western Route Utilisation Strategy), then I'm sure I could live with the changes.  Criticisms above notwithstanding, there is a need for fares in general to pay a sensible proportion of the costs - and driving certain fares down just to get more bums on seats is not always the answer.

[Tim]

They call it abuse, I call them shysters. 

I second that.  I just wish that the less shysterish TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) had the balls to sort ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) out. 

[Timmer]

So it seems ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) are aware of ALR^▸ (All Line Rover) holders potentially using the legitimate rules on split ticketing to get round the 'not before 1000' restriction. They are petulantly threatening even greater restrictions should the ALR be used in this perfectly allowable way.

Threatening??? Once restrictions are added they will forever tinker with them and add more restrictions. It's a slippery slope towards further restrictions over the coming years on this one unfortunately.

[Timmer]

They call it abuse, I call them shysters. 

I second that.  I just wish that the less shysterish TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) had the balls to sort ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) out. 

I dont think ATOC show the TOCs in a very good light at all to be honest especially when it comes to the way the now present fares rises hiding behind averages instead of being upfront about it. Passengers will find out eventually just how much their fare has gone up when they come to buy a ticket so why not be honest about it in the first place.

[rogerw]

The proposed restrictions will make what I was planning this summer impossible.  It is probable that I will no longer buy an All Line Rover so loss of over ^400 to ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here).  All the trains I travelled on before 1000 with Virgin could not have been described as busy.  What businessman sets out after 0900 anyway.  Being cynical 1000 is when most of the companies concerned stop offering breakfast to first class customers.