Pilning - the station, services, viability and closure of down platform - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

They were using up surplus stock. 

[trainer]

I was on the last service on the Epping Ongar branch, some 22 years ago.  Rather a lot of detonators if I remember...

I was there a week or two before the axe fell.  I'm sure the other two people on the train were there for the ride like me as they didn't leave Ongar station either.  No wonder it closed.

It seems we waver between closing things too easily and quickly, and hanging on to redundant infrastructure well past any foreseeable further use. I am not a likely user of Pilning station: is anyone (other than those that like to catch trains from 'rare' stations)? If not, why not get on and remove it from the network?  There are plenty of openings/re-openings demanding resources more likely to be of profit (not only monetary).

[grahame]

It seems we waver between closing things too easily and quickly, and hanging on to redundant infrastructure well past any foreseeable further use. I am not a likely user of Pilning station: is anyone (other than those that like to catch trains from 'rare' stations)? If not, why not get on and remove it from the network? 

The formal process for closing a section of line or station is so complex these days that there's [educated guess] a handful of stations on the network that are (frankly) not going to be use nor ornament in the foreseeable future.  But then there are other stations with similarly low passenger numbers which, given a decent service, would fulfill a much more useful role ... or given a planned or projected development would have a new lease of life.  So those could be of use in the future, and there's a bit of an issue in sorting out which are the "no hope"s, which are the "maybe"s, which are "future potential" and which are "why the heck haven't people been told about this".

What is rather unfortunate (IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion)) is that the closure procedure is so frightening these days that there's been a number of 'closures by stealth' - no consultation, but no effective service remaining.  Each may be a 'special case' and they're at different  process stages ... but think Norton Bridge, Newhaven Marine, Barlaston, Polesworth, Watford West, Denton, Sinfin.  Are those all logical closures?    The casual reader may say "yes" ... but I've sneaked Watford West into that list which was closed without proper closure - shrunken service, became a bus then (I think) a 6 a.m. taxi, but is now being rebuilt, reopened, rejeuvanted.

I don't live in or near Pilning.   Like most people, I have never used it.  But what I do see is a consultation that seems to have been internal rail industry only ... potentially closure by stealth.   It would - at current traffic levels - be an exceptionally poor investment to replace the foot bridge to the international departure platform with a new, disabled-friendly one.  But then it would be silly to end up with no station there if some of the development I've seen talked about / park and ride possibilities now that Parkway is squeaking for space should happen.  Problem is that the decision process, going past the point of "difficult to return" hasn't been advertised and transparent.

Edit because I had included one station twice in my list!

[Bmblbzzz]

I'm guessing there might be two problems from ToCs pov with proper consultation: expense, and that it's very easy for people to say they'll use a putative service but harder for them to actually GOTA and catch the train.

[grahame]

I'm guessing there might be two problems from ToCs pov with proper consultation: expense, and that it's very easy for people to say they'll use a putative service but harder for them to actually GOTA and catch the train.

There are - thank goodness - all sorts of optimism factors built in to forecasting models in an attempt to be realistic; in practise, indeed,modelling comes in distinctly on the negative side.

You correctly identify the expense and hassle of a 'proper' closure test.  It's right that it shouldn't be easy to close something until the avenues have been explored, but when that exploration is so contorted that it leads to what's been described as 'closure by stealth', it's a sign of a system that'n not working.   And indeed, the expense and hassle of closing something are somewhat of a barrier to re-openings, although the 1984 Speller Act for five year trials with a simplified closure procedure if the trial hasn't worked has been a lifeline for many stations and services at the restart point.   Mind you, we lost a service in May at the end of the five years - since to continue it would have meant it couldn't easily be withdrawn at a future date.

[Bmblbzzz]

I'm unconvinced that Pilning is worth saving (but admit that I don't really know) but clearly the closure by stealth, and in fact the whole Parliamentary station concept, is no good for anyone. The fact that it does seem easier/cheaper for ToCs to do this than have a proper, open inquiry followed by either total closure or a decent service does seem to indicate that procedures are not right, neither in closing nor opening stations.

[IndustryInsider]

I'm unconvinced that Pilning is worth saving (but admit that I don't really know) but clearly the closure by stealth, and in fact the whole Parliamentary station concept, is no good for anyone. The fact that it does seem easier/cheaper for ToCs to do this than have a proper, open inquiry followed by either total closure or a decent service does seem to indicate that procedures are not right, neither in closing nor opening stations.

I quite agree that it's no good for anyone and farcical that money is being spent on the upkeep of, say Polesworth, where there's just the one call a day but quite a long platform that needs lighting, cleaning, maintaining and posters updated and so on, for a handful of passengers a year.  However, it's good that legislation to close a station is so complicated that it's not worth it otherwise TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s would probably want to close hundreds of lightly used stations which provide a lifeline for local communities but would never make any money - compare the handful of Parliamentary stations across the country with the wide-scale culling of rural buses in Oxfordshire later this month, where it seems that, without any recourse, scores of local villages are having there bus services completely removed.

[Chris from Nailsea]

This subject has been discussed out on the Coffee Shop forum, in more than one topic, in the past: I'd be happy to move and merge such discussions into one definitive topic (without it needing to reach any particular conclusion, obviously!), if we're all happy with that?

Yes, please Chris - now that we've established that there are very real issues with continining to provide a (usable) train service at Pilning.   You're the merge expert - I'll leave it to you as I often struggle to do it.

Well, I really did walk into that one, didn't I? 

Now done: I've moved and merged three topics into this one here.  I've chosen to put this combined topic in our 'campaigns' board, simply because many of the previous posts show some clear feeling that the train service(s) at Pilning should be 'improved'.

However, we can now continue to debate that here, in this ongoing discussion. 

For whatever my opinion is worth, though: I rather reluctantly have to agree with John R in his post above. 

As this topic continues to be debated on the Coffee Shop forum, I've now moved a discussion of the closure of the Pilning down platform and merged it here - simply in the interests of continuity and ease of future reference. 

[Bmblbzzz]

I'm unconvinced that Pilning is worth saving (but admit that I don't really know) but clearly the closure by stealth, and in fact the whole Parliamentary station concept, is no good for anyone. The fact that it does seem easier/cheaper for ToCs to do this than have a proper, open inquiry followed by either total closure or a decent service does seem to indicate that procedures are not right, neither in closing nor opening stations.

I quite agree that it's no good for anyone and farcical that money is being spent on the upkeep of, say Polesworth, where there's just the one call a day but quite a long platform that needs lighting, cleaning, maintaining and posters updated and so on, for a handful of passengers a year.  However, it's good that legislation to close a station is so complicated that it's not worth it otherwise TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s would probably want to close hundreds of lightly used stations which provide a lifeline for local communities but would never make any money - compare the handful of Parliamentary stations across the country with the wide-scale culling of rural buses in Oxfordshire later this month, where it seems that, without any recourse, scores of local villages are having there bus services completely removed.

Fair point that TOCs shouldn't be able to close stations at the drop of a hat, but what I want to say is that if a station is not being kept open with a reasonable service, it should be closed. The process of closing it should be preceded by extensive, well advertised consultations while a decent service continues. Then either close it down completely or carry on. Parliamentary services are a waste of everyone's time and money.

And yet... the point has been made that sometimes Parly stas act as a sort of mothballing from which it's easy to rejuvenate a station when circumstances change, eg major new developments. So... 

[TonyK]

- compare the handful of Parliamentary stations across the country with the wide-scale culling of rural buses in Oxfordshire later this month, where it seems that, without any recourse, scores of local villages are having there bus services completely removed.

The former young Miss FT, N! lives in Carterton, adjacent to RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force) Brize Norton. Mrs FT, N! visits occasionally on child minding duties. The normal route is - was - train BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) then bus. The problem is that the bus begins its journey in Wiltshire, then serves destinations in Gloucestershire before proceeding into Oxfordshire. That gives three possible funding authorities. Any one dropping out will kill the service. As has happened. As Mrs FT, N! does not drive, then in the absence of someone collecting her from SWI, the alternative will be a much longer journey via OXF^» (Oxford - next trains). That said, I have done the bus trip once, and was the only passenger after Highworth, something I am told is far from unusual. Must cost a fortune.

The more likely solution will involve me and the FT, N!mobile spending my retirement on or near the M4...

[grahame]

Something I hadn't noticed before - a new footbridge at Brigg Station, which has some similarities to Pilning - low-use Saturday only trains, two platforms ...  the newspaper article here is about increased station use rather than the bridge, but I couldn't help noticing than shiny bridge;   looks like a complete new structure, and I suspect there's room for overhead wiring underneath it.

http://www.marketrasenmail.co.uk/news/local/rail-walk-at-brigg-1-7502634?

further research leads to a story from last year (Feb 2015):

http://www.scunthorpetelegraph.co.uk/row-erupts-disabled-access-station-bridge/story-25978267-detail/story.html

...

He said: "I have already taken it up with Network Rail to ask why the bridge is only like-for-like and isn't disabled friendly.

"I am pleased they are proposing to replace it, but it would be better if they replaced it with a more accessible bridge."

The plans – as well as a perceived lack of consultation by Network Rail – have come under criticism from the Friends of the Brigg and Lincoln Lines.

Paul Johnson, chairman of the group, said: "We should be delighted that we are getting this new footbridge, but we have had no consultation whatsoever from Network Rail.

...

Just adding a comparison case in to this thread - it's very difficult to justify large investments in low-use stations, even where the station has been there since Victorian times and it's just an investment to keep it available.

[grahame]

From The Gazette:

RAIL CAMPAIGNERS and residents of Pilning gathered at the village’s rail station this week to urge for the replacement of a platform footbridge.

Leading the campaign to save the bridge are Pilning and Severn Beach parish councillors as well as Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways (FOSBR^▸ (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways)), both of whom fear for the future of the station, should one of its two platforms be shut down.

The meeting, which took place on Monday, follows last month’s announcement by Network Rail that as part of the electrification works for the line that connections Paddington-to-Cardiff, they would be demolishing the footbridge that connects the station with its westbound platform, a move that would subsequently close the platform itself.

etc.

[bobm]

I was at Pilning today to catch one of the last westbound trains.

I was the only one joining, but two got off.




A large poster advertises the changes to the service

[grahame]

Video from yesterday:
https://www.facebook.com/PilningSevernParishCouncil/videos/1168164809907482

A still captured from that video (with permission):


I would strongly encourage Bristol / FOSBR^▸ (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways) / Pilning 'lurkers' on this form to register (if not already registered) and login to add your own 'take' on Bristol and wider events.

Whilst I can (and will on occasions) post news that comes to me as messages / emails, we do provide facilities here for free public posting on subjects just such as this. Neither I nor the rest of the moderator / admin team really has the time to be everyone's personal assistant for routinely cutting and pasting contributions. We are not like a normal newspaper / radio show where (yes) you do have to submit by email for them to use.

Think about it - you get to describe things in your own words, your own editorial decisions, and your own timing of what you post. And by setting up notifications, you can trigger email alerts to inform you when a follow up has been posted so that you don't even have to visit us on a very frequent basis.

[bobm]

Journey planners are showing Wales bound trains calling at Pilning on the 22nd and 29th October (the two Saturdays after the Severn Tunnel blockade) and the poster at the station - shown above - shows changes from 5th November.  So are there two more trains?