Campaign for Tavistock reopening

[whole diary]

[vacman]

The reason a lot of the Southern routes fared worse in the west was partly because most of the stations they built were miles from the towns they were meant to serve (Callington, Camelford, Okehampton, Lyme regis...) Whether it was more luck than judgement most GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) stations in the West are pretty well situated for their towns (St Ives, Penzance, Redruth, Falmouth, Looe, Newton Abbot, Paignton and so on), also a lot of the Southern routes were single track winding branches. The main line between Exeter and Plymouth via Okehampton would never be a viable alternative to the GW^▸ (Great Western) route, it would involve two reversals for Cornish services, serves no real population and the journey times would be far longer!

[inspector_blakey]

It could have been worse - the viaducts in Tavistock were only saved from demolition because of the cost of doing so and because West Devon Borough Council then took them over.  If they had gone in the 1970s, any hope of one day reopening Tavistock - Okehampton would have disappeared for ever.  A very close run thing.

Could have been much, much worse - the original Beeching report envisaged no railway west of Plymouth, so the fate of the Tavistock viaducts would have been somewhat academic!

[woody]

The main line between Exeter and Plymouth via Okehampton would never be a viable alternative to the GW^▸ (Great Western) route, it would involve two reversals for Cornish services, serves no real population and the journey times would be far longer!

As you you say Vacman for the reasons you highlight I dont think re-opening the former LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) Exeter/Plymouth through route is ever going happen despite my heart saying yes my head unfortunately says no.Three of the four main rail traffic generating urban centres in Devon are in the Southern half of Devon(Plymouth/Exeter/Torbay) and that is not going to change.We are where we are as it were and apart from reconnecting Tavistock to Plymouth all available resources should therefore be targetted at trying to improve the currently woefully inadequate GW main line in South Devon between Exeter and Plymouth.

[34104]

The reason a lot of the Southern routes fared worse in the west was partly because most of the stations they built were miles from the towns they were meant to serve (Callington, Camelford, Okehampton, Lyme regis...) Whether it was more luck than judgement most GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) stations in the West are pretty well situated for their towns (St Ives, Penzance, Redruth, Falmouth, Looe, Newton Abbot, Paignton and so on), also a lot of the Southern routes were single track winding branches. The main line between Exeter and Plymouth via Okehampton would never be a viable alternative to the GW^▸ (Great Western) route, it would involve two reversals for Cornish services, serves no real population and the journey times would be far longer!

I agree about the distance of some stations from the village/towns but then again Bude,Holsworthy,Seaton,Budleigh Salterton,Launceston,Padstow,Wadebridge etc were very close to their respective centres,so maybe that wasn't such an issue-Bere Alston and Gunnislake are a fair distance away from the villages,hasn't stopped them from surviving and indeed thriving in recent times.I also agree about the population of Newton Abbot/Dawlish etc being a big factor in the GWR main line CV but it's rather harsh to say that the SR^‡(resolve) "serves no real population".Tavistock is already bigger than Totnes [which has no problem in maintaining a main line station] and will grow substantially over the next few years,as will Okehampton-both towns are scheduled to have a fairly massive house building programme imposed on them by the WDBC core strategy,so there would seem to be some potential there IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion).And trains would only have to reverse once if they started at Waterloo! Actually,i'm no expert on these matters but does having to reverse make that much difference in the age of power cars and multiple units?

[trainbuff]

I believe the timescale if followed would mean the line could be open as early as by September 2014.

Though at the moment I am not quite sure what effect the recession will have. Mind you. It tends to be people moving into our area that have already made their money that are most likely to be able to afford housing, so that may still be ok.

The Former LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway)/SR^‡(resolve) lines did fare much worse. The three main population centres certainly meant the former GW^▸ (Great Western) route was preferred and as 34104 says this is totally logical. However, it was not logical that the Southern Way was completely closed. Its closure came 5 years after the Beeching report. As has also been said though. The decision was made back then.

As for now. I can only say "Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to want open the line!"

Tavistock AND Okehampton have grown massively in this time as 34104 says again. Both have large catchment areas. Though Okehamptons proximity to the A30 means that it may be harder to generate revenue from here. However, if it becomes more expensive to use the car, pay for parking etc, the railway becomes viable. But what would really help is the political change of direction needed. Not spending ^100million on a 3 mile bypass at Kingsteignton, but instead increasing rail use in that area and leaving enough left over to relay from Tavistock to Okehampton!

This will only come when fuel becomes expensive enough to force Government to invest in the railways instead of roads.

Many stations are far from the town they served. What didn't help the "Withered Arm" was that the summer season on the North coast was always shorter than on the South. Whilst I would love to see much of these open , it would be difficult to justify. Even as late as 1965 (I believe) the WR ran a train (admittedly from Paddington) to Bude on Summer Saturdays. It was heavily used. But traffic in the Winter was very light.

[trainbuff]

Yes Woody is right. It is the Political Will and direction that has to change.

With the growth of passenger numbers on the Branches in Devon and Cornwall we need investment. Even with the Tavistock reopening, just a little more money for a loop at Bere Alston would mean NO reduction in trains to Gunnislake at all.

Though the problem of lack of vehicles would then cause a problem!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Several other posts, which discuss the wider implications of the Beeching cuts, have been split off from this specific topic and now have their own topic, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9915.0

I'm sorry if any of the resulting discussions on these two topics now seem slightly 'clunky' as a result: I did do my best to iron out any overlaps! 

[trainbuff]

I am not sure where this post should go as it refers to the new Great Western Franchise, but it is Extremely pertinent to the thread about Tavistock reopening.

The Franchise proposals include a consideration for a Portishead service. However, whilst I fully support the reopening proposals for Portishead, funding has not yet been secured.

When I read through the consultation document I noted that no mention was made about the proposed Tavistock service. This is much nearer to completion than Portishead. I have submitted a response to this consultation document, pointing out these facts as below.

I would urge all other supporters of the reopening of the Tavistock line to do the same.

Sir/Madam,

Having read through the consultation document that the New Franchise Proposal quite rightly includes a commitment to plan for a Portishead service, even though this Branch has NOT been reopened to passenger traffic, nor has funding to reopen this line (currently estimated at ^43million) been secured.

I would like to point out that Killbride Group are currently working towards reinstatement of the rail line between Bere Alston (on the Gunnislake Branch, also known as the Tamar Valley Line) and Tavistock. This is likely to be open by the end of 2014 and thus falls within the scope of the next Great Western Franchise.

I believe therefore that consideration should be made for this service also.Especially as timetables have been worked through AND Killbride are currently preparing a Transport and Works Order. This rail line, being reinstated with private money obtained by allowing 750 new homes to be built in Tavistock, and supported by Devon County Council, West Devon District Council as well as other groups, is likely to be open and operating before the Portishead line and should therefore be included in the scope of the Great Western Franchise.

It will help alleviate the traffic jams on the A386 and reduce journey times for commuters and Plymouth dramatically.

The email address to submit replies is:-        gwconsultation@dft.gsi.gov.uk

[trainbuff]

Hi all,

Received this back from the Great Western Consultation today

Dear Chris

 

I recently met with Kilbride and will ensure this is on the list of options.

 

Thank you for your response.

 

Regards

 

Martin Holt

[34104]

Snippet of information.The lower road between Bere Alston and Tavistock is to be closed from 10th April for 5 days and a notice has been posted that the reason for this is to allow inspection of an existing railway bridge.There is a skewed iron bridge which crosses the road near to the Eastern entrance of Shillamill tunnel,so presumably this is the one to be inspected,in fact there aren't any other possibilities.Maybe things are starting to move behind the scenes-5 days seems an awful long time to inspect a railway bridge,but i'm no expert in these matters.

[trainbuff]

This is interesting news. I hope it is to do with the reopening. As I understand it though the TWAO^▸ (Transport and Works Act Order ) is what is happening now. This piece of land is now owned by West Devon Council I believe and they may be assessing the structure for themselves. Let us know more if you hear any further!

[Chris from Nailsea]

'TWAO^▸ (Transport and Works Act Order )' is a Transport and Works Act Order - I'll add it to our Acronyms / Abbreviations page.

[trainbuff]

Yes, sorry about that Chris. shopuld have written longform!

[Chris from Nailsea]

No worries - that's what I'm here for! 

[34104]

This is interesting news. I hope it is to do with the reopening. As I understand it though the TWAO^▸ (Transport and Works Act Order ) is what is happening now. This piece of land is now owned by West Devon Council I believe and they may be assessing the structure for themselves. Let us know more if you hear any further!

I think the land is owned by DCC^» (Devon County Council - website),it was certainly a DCC notice posted.The whole of the road isn't to be closed, you can get to Tavistock via the upper route and get reasonably close to the old railway bridge on the lower road,so i''ll park up and get as close as i can when the works are taking place,maybe get my walking boots and rucksack out and play the part of innocent rambler to ask some "innocent" questions!