Campaign for Tavistock reopening

[whole diary]

[G.Uard]

Great idea Andrew.  Not sure what practical help I can offer, but I will undertake to raise awareness at our local depot with the odd poster, flyer etc. 

[andrewr]

Thanks, G.Uard - if the campaign does get going, this is exactly the sort of help it'll need to boost awarenes... what a good start!

Andy

[Btline]

A campaign for the reopening to Tavistock will get nowhere. It is a few miles of track which will be deemed "not value for money" to open by ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)/NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/Dft. Whilst this is bad - I can see where they are coming from. Years of work and millions spent for relatively few passengers.

Look at the Wealden Line (Uckfield - Lewes), a possible major London commuter line, taking cars of the road. Reopening declined as it is so short, and therefore the cost:benefit ratio is <1.5.

However, a campaign to reopen the whole Exeter - Plymouth via Oak and Tavvy has the potential to get somewhere. Not only would it be a mainline with trains from London Waterloo, it would create demand for travel between the major population centres as well has the commuters to Plymouth from Tavistock.

It would be a hard battle, but I am sure it would succeed, as it would also provide a diversionary route avoiding Dawlish. I am certain the cost benefits would be >1.5.

In this case, I think you should extend the campaign. Then 1 tph to Plymouth from Waterloo (fast between Tavvy and Plymouth, and 1 tph to Plymouth from Guinislake (stopping).

[devon_metro]

Pretty much mothballing the only economic area outside of the two cities in Devon then?? Dawlish sea wall is in the best state it has ever been in. We've also had few storms thus far this 'storm' season.

[Btline]

No-one is talking about mothballing the South Devon line.

Re-opening the North Devon line would help North Devon, and (if the sea wall were to be breached, which - let's face it with climate change - is likely to happen more frequently over the next century) there will be a diversionary route.

[onthecushions]

A few thoughts on re-opening.

Firstly, the market for a railway station depends largely on the number of people within walking distance. This may be taken as 12 minutes walk, 800m or 2km2. Population density in towns is approx 5000/m2, so 10000 is the magic number. ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) figures for entries and exits tend to give about 25 trips/head/year for 2/4 trains/hr, producing about 250000trips. This means about 400 departures/working day so 30 car spaces don't help much. Tavistock's 2001 poulation was c11000 so it looks promising if the terminus were well sited.

Secondly, provision and cost depend upon how much infrastructure has survived, who owns it and whether the LA (and SUSTRANS) backs the idea. LA's are often against development so will say one thing about reopenings while sabotaging them quietly.

Thirdly, a Network rail scheme will cost 6 - 20M per mile, as it will bridge all level crossings, rebuild all bridges to 22.5t axle load, purchase vast amounts of land for contractor access, build formation for 90mph and double track etc etc etc, as the Wealden Line.

My advice is to secure the trackbed either in a private trust or sympathetic LA and find a competent heritage railway to manage reinstatement, (they use contractors too but at reasonable rates). You should also include a heritage/tourist/green element.

You will need local support from the rich and powerful; private, public and business. A big problem will be how far your route can penetrate the built-up area; the trackbed/stations get bought up and it can take years waiting for someone to move on.

And lots of PR^▸ (Public Relations).

Good luck,

OTC

[RailCornwall]

One further issue to be considered with a Tavistock reopening has to be Gunnislake, Is Gunnislake to be sacrificed as part of a reopening to Tavistock? If the purpose of Tavistock - Plymouth is JTWA traffic offsetting then the incorporation of a dogleg to G. on one or both legs will detract from the advantages of the journey. In addition to the extension a passing loop similar to Penryn on Truro - Falmouth will have to be considered. A single train operation will in my opinion not be a frequent enough service for a JTWA commuter service. services will need to be at least at thirty minute intervals each way 0700 - 0930 and from 1600 - 1830.

[RichardB]

Here's some reading material re Tavistock.

The "Evidence of Deliverability" report is Kilbride Community Rail's current view on how they would deliver the Bere Alston - Tavistock line (including, in section 3, an outline timetable)

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/tavistock/docs.asp

[Btline]

Guinislake is a major reason why the line should be opened FULLY from Oakhampton. You end up with a mainline for faster trains, and a branch from where stopping trains can run.

Otherwise, you end up with a line with two stubs.

[devon_metro]

The line wouldn't be profitable though. It wouldn't be faster than via the Sea Wall route, so nobody would use through routes unless travelling from Tavistock.

[Btline]

Few lines are profitable* (and they shouldn't need to be), although re-opening a through route will be far more profitable than opening a few miles of track. If the through route were to be opened, no-one would expect Plymouth to London passengers to start using it, but those from Tavistock and Oakhampton would benefit from a direct service. It would encourage inter-town travel (avoiding the busy A30), as well as commuter travel to both Exeter and Plymouth (from Cred, Oak as well as Tav). And to top it off, it is a diversionary route.

See how many more benefits (and therefore profits) the through route has?

*Are there any profitable lines west of Exeter (bearing in mind that most LONDON COMMUTER lines are NOT profitable)?

[devon_metro]

The A30 is fine around the belt of Dartmoor though, with 2 or 3 lanes on either side. The problem with rurual areas is that you aren't going to get people out of their cars, by the time they get to a station, they have got to park, wait for the train. They might have well have driven the whole way!

A local service to Tavistock would be an excellent starting point which would inevitably lead to the whole line being reinstated, although campaigning for the whole Meldon > Bere Alston route will get you nowhere!

[Andy]

I agree that it's better to go for reopening to Tavistock first, then Okehampton but any campaign surely has to be harnessed to the Kilbride initiative, although my misgiving about the plans as they stand is the proposed site of Tavistock station. It would be more desirable to build it nearer to the town centre, although a dwelling, just on the other side of the bridge over the Callington road now stands in the way, I believe. 

The reopening of a direct route to London Waterloo could also attract users from East Cornwall and West Devon, in an arc from Launceston, through Bude to Torrington, from which area the distance to a railhead with direct links to the capital is considerable.

Another potential benefit to the reinstatement of the entire route would be the creation of a Devon orbital railway around Dartmoor: Plymouth-Bere Alston (for Gunnislake) Tavistock-Okehampton-Crediton (for Barnstaple) -Exeter (for Exmouth)-Newton Abbot (for Torbay)-Totnes-Ivybridge-Plymouth.

[Btline]

I can see that the common sense approach is to campaign for the Tavvy extension first.

But I fear that it will get nowhere, as it provides relatively few benefits (unlike a scheme to open the whole line).

I hardly think NR^» (Network Rail - home page) will spend millions on a short section of track in Devon when they rejected a few miles of track in Sussex. However, a scheme to create a major route might get started.

I have a feeling that NR will tell potential Tavistock passengers to drive to Bere Alston (or they'll "get" some "stats" which show people drive to the line already).

[signalandtelegraph]

I hardly think NR^» (Network Rail - home page) will spend millions on a short section of track in Devon when they rejected a few miles of track in Sussex. However, a scheme to create a major route might get started.

Kilbride group are paying for it in return for planning permission to build houses - at least thats what I understood