Campaign for Tavistock reopening

[whole diary]

[Tinminer]

Yes 750 homes is a lot, but  not so much as being planned in other areas of the SW - Okehampton and the Redruth-Pool-Camborne conurbation to name just two.

If we want to face up to the housing shortfall, we are going to have to build the houses somewhere! But, I take your point, that spreading them out along the Tamar line is a good idea.

[Andy]

Yes, and if they have to be built, it's better to get a rail link along with them.

[vacman]

Interesting aritcle in Rail, out in the shops on thursday, subscribers got it today, nice long article about tavvy reopening, seems that Kilbride have already started the wheels in motion, they hope to submit their Transport and Works act order in 2009!

[Tinminer]

Interesting aritcle in Rail, out in the shops on thursday, subscribers got it today, nice long article about tavvy reopening, seems that Kilbride have already started the wheels in motion, they hope to submit their Transport and Works act order in 2009!

Just bought my copy today - great article by Nigel Harris, although now out of date with the closure of the Dartmoor Railway, which he refers to several times.
It is indeed encouraging news - pity not all of the councillors are 'on side'.

[RichardB]

A new development is that Devon County Council has announced it is to buy the section of trackbed still in railway ownership from BRB^‡(resolve) Residuary - this is about half of the trackbed between Bere Alston and Tavistock.

We had a conference "Community Rail in Devon & Cornwall" last Friday at which Peter Frost, MD of Kilbride Community Rail, spoke of their plans.  Both developments led to a fair bit of media coverage

http://www.itvlocal.com/westcountry/news/ - go to the "Latest News Bulletins" on the right hand side, then go to Friday night's programme.  It's ten minutes in.

Also here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7626290.stm
(this has been cut a bit, but you will get the drift.)

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks, Richard!

There's also some coverage on another topic here, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3383.msg26887#msg26887

Chris 

[RichardB]

Thanks Chris.  I'd missed that post.

[Chris from Nailsea]

No problem, Richard!

Good luck with the campaign!

C. 

[onthecushions]

It's difficult to see how any rail re-opening could take place anywhere with Network Rail doing the honours.

Try googling Wealden Line and reading the work proposed by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) (it's quite long).

For 7.5 miles of single track it proposes to acquire an extra wide strip of land all the way down, deep ballast and blanket a double track width, engineer for 90mph (the existing stump is only 70), re-build every bridge for 25.5t axle load even when no freight use is forecast, bridge all crossings (but not at busier ones still in use to the North of Uckfield) etc etc etc.

The cost?   .....141M or 19M/track mile. Extrapolate this to the WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) schemes and try to imagine benefits that could reach 1.5 times this total in NPV.

The only way you'll get to Tavistock or Newquay (via St Austell) is for the County Council to buy the land and get a heritage/private railway to bid for the work competitively.

It's not DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s fault for having cold feet at the cost but it is to blame for setting up NR in the first place.

OTC

[Brunel-Scott]

    Very interesting to read all the comments on Tavistock reopening. I live in Gunnislake (!) and use the train sometimes (usually good unless the driver forgets to turn up) but I work in Tavistock, so I am very interested in the idea of the short length of track from Bere Alston to Tavistock being reinstated. The cost estimate sounds exhorbitant, but look at any transport scheme today and it is always expensive. If there were to be a public/private partnership where a volunteer scheme to help at least to do the groundwork was an option, it could save ^, but there would have to be some sort of reward for the volunteers, like discount fares.
    For those who have not walked the disused line, it is pretty overgrown and would need some robust preparation - nothing insurmountable though. The tunnel (Shillamill) is in remarkably good condition considering it is 40 years since the line closed, and certainly did not leak when I last walked through it. It still has ballast and a drainage system inside it. The impressive viaduct to the north of the tunnel is also very fine, but will need some repointing and the reinstatement of dressed stonework which has fallen from the parapet; reinstating the use of the viaduct will mean at least some use of scaffolding, which of course is quite expensive.

[Lee]

Welcome to the forum, Brunel-Scott

[Brunel-Scott]

Continuation re Tavistock.

'Onthecushions' quotes the huge and unnecessary costs involved in the Wealden scheme - might I suggest it is not so much NR^» (Network Rail - home page) (who would doubtless prefer to keep costs down) but the insidious European Commission? (Perhaps I am wrong).
   Anyway, back to the Tavistock line. Well, of course when it closed originally it should have been 'mothballed' - I think with the steep rise in Tavistock's population in the '80s and '90s, which still continues, the line could easily have reopened 10 years ago, but I have to say the local councillors and others do nothing but talk. In the meantime, every day there is a continuous and exceptionally wasteful procession of traffic heading to and from Plymouth, as there is no other practical means of transport (the bus journey is inexorably slow).    
    I am quite sure a reinstated line for Tavistock would get plenty of use, especially if there were incentives such as comfortable coaches and perhaps a breakfast car (now that would be popular). Given a maximised track layout at Bere Alston, the suggested Gunnislake shuttle could terminate on one side, while there could be a passing loop for the 'main' line, allowing a doubled up service for peak times. I think there is enough room at Bere Alston for the shuttle to be accorded a servicing facility.
    The objection within Tavistock, of course, is the heavy tag of extra housing involved in the reinstatement scheme, but I am quite sure there are other sources of funding possible. Perhaps the Councillors and others should take a look at the amazing Welsh Highland Railway, or the Ebbw vale reinstatement, to get a broader view. With the housing market the way it is, the new housing/new railway scheme could end up as a damp squib anyway. 
    Fundamentally, it needs someone to take charge with a bit of drive and initiative.
 
 

[Brunel-Scott]

Thank you very much, Lee Fletcher!

[Brunel-Scott]

A few other thoughts on the Tavistock reopening idea.

1. The councillors citing the Derriford requirement for commuters (which is a negative, given that the railway could not go anywhere near) are forgetting all the positive benefits of the line reopening, which are:-

     a) Being attached to the National & International Railway Network, hence those of
        us who live in the area but are not as insular as the councillors would be able to
        travel anywhere with 'the car' going no further than the Station Car Park.
 
     b) For those people who work at the new shopping mall and the increasingly busy
         University, it would be fine, as these are a very short walk from the station.

     c) For all the tourists from all over Britain and beyond who wish to visit Tavistock
         and Dartmoor (knowing Tavistock was recently 'Market Town of the Year') the
         ability to travel the whole way by rail would be a major boost.

     d) For all those young people who are away at university or who work 'up country'
         and want to visit family at weekends and holidays, this would be a major
         improvement.
     
     e) The Luddites who fail to see the benefits of reconnecting Tavistock to the
         Network also seem to underestimate the great relief of congestion that would
         benefit the quality of life that Tavistock values. Traffic has become a major
         problem in Tavistock in recent years - not the quiet sleepy place it was when I
         first worked there in 1977. 

     f)  I wonder if Tavistock councillors realise the huge negative impact of travelling by
         rail from (say) London on a comfortable, warm HST^▸ (High Speed Train) with catering facilities, only
         to have to use an incredibly slow and cramped bus service to Tavistock on a dark
         wet night, or to have to fork out for an incredibly expensive taxi, or to have a
         family member or friend drive a round 30 miles to pick one up. No wonder
         friends who come down from London or Brighton invariably come by car. Now - is
         that environmentally desirable?

     g) Perhaps in answer to the Derriford Dilemma, if First (who run the buses as well as
         the trains in the area) were to lay on a shuttle bus service out to the Derriford
         area from Plymouth Station (the route mostly includes bus lanes) which actually
         co-ordinated with the trains, then problem solved.   

     h) Finally - apropos the existing service to Gunnislake - would it not be possible for
         FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to operate one extra late service on Friday evenings (only) for people
         coming down for weekends: when I worked in London and liked to do just this,
         there was never a train to Gunnislake to meet the train at Plymouth - too late -
         so one had to take a taxi or get a lift. It rather spoilt the point of using the train.
         Likewise, one later train on a Sunday, to arrive in Plymouth in time for the last
         direct Paddington service would be useful too. If there is currently little or no
         demand, it is almost entirely due to the fact that at the moment it is much more
         convenient to do the whole journey by car.

     ANY VIEWS?   
         

[bemmy]

If there is currently little or no demand, it is almost entirely due to the fact that at the moment it is much more convenient to do the whole journey by car.

I tend to find there is never any demand for a service that doesn't exist.

For example, it's a well known fact that nobody wants a morning train from London that will get them to Exeter and Plymouth before 10am, I guess that unlike other cities Exeter and Plymouth just don't have business meetings or conferences starting in the morning.

Similarly, nobody living near the Severn Beach line ever wants to travel to South Bristol, or anywhere on the line to Weston. And nobody from Bedminster wants to travel to anywhere at all in the Bristol area apart from Temple Meads, Filton and Parkway. That's why if I do manage to travel from Parson St to Lawrence Hill (one way only possible), they don't usually sell me a ticket, cause I don't exist.

And I'm sure that since the services were withdrawn there's no demand for a commuter train from Melksham to Chippenham and Swindon.

So I think you'll find there's no demand for a train service from Tavvy, because no-one has caught a train there for over 40 years.