Worrying fact re:166s

[whole diary]

[northwesterntrains]

After the 172s they are the newest build of commuter diesel trains. 

Although there has been an increase in 155s, 156s and 158s used on more local services due to 175s indirectly replacing the First North Western 101s in 2000 and more recently the TP Express 158s being cascaded.

[ChrisB]

And they're life-expired at the end of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise in 2016....they won't meet DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) requirements by then.

Even more worrying....

[northwesterntrains]

I somehow doubt that we will see all Pacers scrapped by 2016 and all other non-DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) complaint units either scrapped or made accessible.

[vacman]

I somehow doubt that we will see all Pacers scrapped by 2016 and all other non-DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) complaint units either scrapped or made accessible.

It's only a matter of fitting disabled toilets though isn't it? pretty easy on a 16x unit bear in mind they are structurally very similar to 168/170 units which have disabled toilets.

[northwesterntrains]

It's only a matter of fitting disabled toilets though isn't it? pretty easy on a 16x unit bear in mind they are structurally very similar to 168/170 units which have disabled toilets.

With most units I'm guessing they could do like First North Western did with the 150s, add an accessible toilet, put a wheelchair space near the toilet and make sure it's 2+2 seating between one of the exterior doors and the accessible toilet to allow wheelchair access through part of the train, even if it's 3+2 seating elsewhere.

With Pacers I think they'll fail as the extended ramps can't be used at some stations and it'll be difficult to create an accessible toilet in the space available and with the doors in different positions on either side.

Edited to fix quote. bignosemac

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Will this effect even older stock used on tours And spot hires... Mk'1s ?

[inspector_blakey]

After the 172s they are the newest build of commuter diesel trains. 

Truly frightening. The 170s and 171s must be a figment of my imagination then. Not to mention Chiltern's 168 fleet.

[willc]

And they're life-expired at the end of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise in 2016....

How do you work that out? Typical working life of British rolling stock is about 30 years. If it was 23 or 24 years, then the 150s FGW is getting from London should actually be on their way to the scrapyard, along with the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) fleet. One of the final few Class 101s withdrawn in 2003 was well into its forties

Turbos date from 1990-3, which would make them a bit young for the cutter's torch and I don't imagine it would be too hard to make them DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about)-compliant as northwesterntrains suggest. Just a bit pointless for FGW or the leasing firm to spend money on it at present when no-one knows where they will be working and on what type of services come 2016.

[ChrisB]

The width of the doors & vestibules I weas told....

[northwesterntrains]

The 170s and 171s must be a figment of my imagination then. Not to mention Chiltern's 168 fleet.

Oh there was me thinking that 168s and 170s were designed as Regional trains not local commuter trains, to be in the same catergory as 156s and 158s and not belonging in the same catergory as the likes of 165s and Pacers.

[IndustryInsider]

Depends on what you define as 'regional' and 'commuter' I suppose?  I would say that Chiltern's 168's are a regional train, but that certainly doesn't stop them from doing a lot of work ferrying commuters between Marylebone and Banbury all day.  The same could be said of the 166's - designed for the longer distance services like the Cotswold Line and the North Downs line, but again can be seen helping out with the masses leaving Paddington every evening.

I suppose the simplest way of defining them is by the seating layout - 2+2 equals 'regional' and 2+3 equals 'commuter'.  That's far from perfect though as it would mean the Class 166's are 6/7ths 'commuter' train and 1/7th 'regional'. 

[northwesterntrains]

Or another way of looking at it is what routes the trains are intended for on build.

Some of the routes 170s were built for:
Hull to London
Sheffield to London
Liverpool to Norwich
Liverpool to Stansted Airport

Not very local journeys and if anything the debate would be more regional vs intercity than local vs regional.

With 168s being built for London-Birmingham, again not very local even if they are more local than the 170 routes listed.

In the same way Pacers aren't regional trains as they were built for local routes, even though they've finished up on some local routes.

[willc]

The width of the doors & vestibules I weas told....

If Turbo doors aren't wide enough then pretty much the entire British rolling stock fleet would fail - and what on earth are they expecting to fit through them? Three wheelchairs abreast?

[Electric train]

Interesting that everyone in this thread is focusing on a single disability issue, wheel chair access some one with a limb missing or someone who is blind, impaired sighting or learning difficulties have different requirements so adapting trains and stations for just wheel chairs does not answer all the DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) requirements.  The DDA does make exemptions for existing infrastructure and vehicles where it is impractical to modify them.

[ChrisB]

Indeed - but we are discussing the features that only fail the turbos....which are those already mentioned. Please stay with the topic....