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Brucey
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« on: September 19, 2010, 12:22:50 » |
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A train company has been branded a "disgrace" by union chiefs after it emerged some of its new fleet will have no toilets on board.
Southern Railway opted to forgo the facilities on its latest trains running on the Portsmouth to Brighton service.
The Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers' union (RMT▸ ) called the decision "unacceptable" because of the one-and-a-half-hour-long journey.
The firm said it was not unusual and other trains did not have toilets.
RMT general secretary Bob Crow called the move "unacceptable" and said it run the risk of turning carriages into "stinking cattle trucks" creating appalling conditions for passengers and staff.
"The route has always had toilets on board in the past," he said.
"This is the main connection between two major cities on the South coast.
"One and a half hours without any toilet facilities on board is unacceptable."
He said RMT was already set to ballot members of Southern Railway for industrial action after cuts to security led to an increase in assaults on staff.
A Southern Railway spokeswoman said its new fleet of trains was to increase passenger capacity.
The Department for Transport said there were no rules on whether or not toilets should be available on trains.
"We expect rail companies to provide a good service," he added.
"However, it is not for the Government to micromanage the industry." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11358844Can't find the thread, but lack of toilets was recently discussed elsewhere on this forum. |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2010, 12:38:55 » |
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These 'latest trains' are presumably the Class 313's transferred from London Overground? They are 35 years old and were never fitted with toilets, so I presume that retro-fitting them would have been pretty expensive. However, in this day and age, trains in service for such a length of journey really should have a toilet - even if Crow goes over-the-top with his rhetoric as usual! This isn't a new story as it was in the following article dating from back in February: http://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/Rail-group-slams-Southern39s-old.6103806.jp |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2010, 12:57:25 » |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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paul7575
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2010, 13:47:52 » |
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The problem with this story, which has been rumbling on since SN first announced they were bringing in the stock, is what you mean by the term 'routes between Brighton and Portsmouth'.
Being an optimist, my understanding of SN's initial annuncement is that the 313s will mainly be used on the all shacks stoppers in the route area, but the end to end run will still be mainly 377s, except for some positioning moves. 'The route' includes stuff like Brighton - Hove shuttles, Brighton - West Worthings, Bognor - Littlehampton, the Bognor - Barnham shuttle, Littlehampton - Portsmouth stopper, and then east of Brighton the Seafords etc.
Apparently 'The Times' wrote the story up as being on an 'intercity' route...
Paul
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eightf48544
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2010, 15:11:27 » |
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I always thought the provison of public toilet facilities whether on trains or land was sign of a civilised country.
One of things that Englishmen abroad always used to comment on was the appalling lack of such facilities even in France and other European countries.
Now with town centre conviniences closing and even shops like Homebase (at least in Slough) closing their provision. We are going backwards.
The 313s were always a poor train for interior comfort but on the relatively short journies on the NLL they at least maintained the service. On the South Coast even on stoppers/short workings they are really unsuitable/unacceptable.
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paul7575
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2010, 15:39:11 » |
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The 313s were always a poor train for interior comfort but on the relatively short journies on the NLL they at least maintained the service. On the South Coast even on stoppers/short workings they are really unsuitable/unacceptable.
Apart from the lack of toilets though, which I tend to agree is a bad move on that route, the trains are being fully refurbished internally, so at least the general condition will be much improved over their Silverlink/LO interiors, more like SN's refurbed 455s. Presumably it is only a matter of time before the RMT▸ (for it is their press release regurgitated everywhere) turn their attention to the toiletless 455s running from Waterloo to Guildford (75 mins)? Paul |
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paul7575
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2010, 15:52:15 » |
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It also seems to me that Mr Crow has raised this more in support of his proposed industrial dispute over late night security for SN traincrew - it sneaks in half way down most versions of the story... Paul |
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matt473
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2010, 15:53:33 » |
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The Department for Transport said there were no rules on whether or not toilets should be available on trains.
"We expect rail companies to provide a good service," he added.
"However, it is not for the Government to micromanage the industry."
Funniest thing I have read in ages  |
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devon_metro
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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2010, 17:36:45 » |
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Perhaps somebody should alert the RMT▸ of the truly appaling conditions that travellers from West Ruislip to Epping have to put up with the torrid and quite frankly disgusting interiors of the Central line stock where cash strapped commuters are forced to stand for 87 minutes in stinking cattle trucks without toilets.
On an aside note; do I get the job in the RMT press office?
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2024, 23:15:26 » |
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On another 'aside note': rather than apparently get a lumberjack in to 'axe the toilets', couldn't they just get a plumber in, to 'disconnect' them?  |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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broadgage
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2024, 14:16:18 » |
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This looks to me like another example of "what down grades can we get away with" when introducing new trains or "improving" old ones.
Toilets should be required on all new trains, even for what are intended to be very short journeys. Signalling failures, security alerts, windy weather.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2024, 15:00:13 » |
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This looks to me like another example of "what down grades can we get away with" when introducing new trains or "improving" old ones.
Given the story is from 14 years ago, and the trains being talked about (Class 313s) were over 30 years old even then and had never been fitted with toilets, they must be getting really old now? Scrap that, they were scrapped last year!  |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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